Mogul info

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: cbrew, Harold_V

User avatar
Benjamin Maggi
Posts: 1409
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Mogul info

Post by Benjamin Maggi »

Allen Models also makes a mogul kit. It comes with inside slide valves Stephenson valve gear, but it can be modified to use Walshaerts.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... =8&t=80445
I planned to go that route until I started on my Sweet William engine.

I only point that out because if you are willing to figure out the math involved, you can switch the valve gear to what you want.
"One cannot learn to swim without getting his feet wet." - Benjamin Maggi
- Building: 7.25" gauge "Sweet Pea" named "Catherine"
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Jim, Benjamin, I started by looking at the RRS mogul since that was what Bob Reedy based his rendition on, then looked at the Allen because it appeared they have a good following and rather complete kits and finally Little Engines. I have not seen the actual plans for either of them. Looking at available castings some seem better than others. The only way I'd be able to tell would be at a show where all three were present.
First I managed to find a decent quality line drawing of a Mogul with dimensions, I imported it into my CAD program then down scaled it to 1.5" scale. I then imported a photograph of a similar prototype engine, scaled it to fit and overlaid that to verify the line drawing. Those two synced up pretty well. Then I compared those to pictures and online images of the three kits. We'll say that the 2-6-0 configuration defines a Mogul and leave it there. Not that I fault the kit manufacturers because in their defense I can find variation in prototype engines depending on who and where they were built, what year and intended use. Some have small diameter boilers, some boilers are jacked up sky high, main drivers of many diameters, coachwork varied, wheels varied.
The largest common main drivers I have found in the USA version are 63", I'll go with that.
The largest boiler I have found scales down to 10", the models are typically based on 8.625" pipe, I did find some 10" x 1/4" wall tube I could use for the smokebox and then build the 8.625" boiler out to 10" with insulation and sheeting.
I'd go with the same wheelbase spacing's as the prototype.
The side frames are drawn out up to the cylinders but for lack of examples I am not sure what the prototypes were like from there forward.
We would CNC plasma cut then CNC mill the frames.
Also up front I do not have a layout for an equalized front truck. I'd like to have all the axels equalized as well as brakes.
Details of what happens up front will also be sketchy until I either decide on somebody's cylinder castings or make patterns. 2.625 dia x 3.5 stroke.
For the Walschaerts gear we can 3D print the components and try them (gently) to verify geometry and general fit.
Please keep the information coming, details and links have added a lot to the knowledge base.
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Is there a reason other than additional material expense that cylinders should not be cast in bronze?
User avatar
Fender
Posts: 3084
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Chattanooga TN

Re: Mogul info

Post by Fender »

MsChrissi wrote: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:02 pm Is there a reason other than additional material expense that cylinders should not be cast in bronze?
Many live steam cylinder castings, especially in the past, were made in bronze. However, there are a few potential issues besides cost. The first is that molten bronze is not as fluid as cast iron, so there is the potential for voids in the casting because the mold is not completely filled. The second is that dissolved gases can cause porosity in the casting. I’ve heard of both problems in commercially-produced bronze castings. Good foundry practice can avoid these problems.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
Marty_Knox
Posts: 1724
Joined: Thu Jan 09, 2003 6:50 pm
Location: Michigan, USA

Re: Mogul info

Post by Marty_Knox »

Little Engines offers two different Moguls, an old-time one with slide valves and Stephenson Valve Gear, and a Modern Mogul with piston valves and Walschaerts Valve Gear. Model Rails of Ann Arbor Michigan used to offer a Mogul based on the SP M-21.
jamesjgould
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:43 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI & Zephyrhills, FL
Contact:

Re: Mogul info

Post by jamesjgould »

Where in the Midwest are you located ? I did a build project of 10 Southern Pacific M-10 Moguls (T&NO M-10) several years ago under the name Model Rails, Inc. The whole project fizzled when the boiler supplier back out on me after just 3 boilers and I came to the sad realization that I was losing about $4000 on every loco sold. I did sell a few parts kits to people with the ability to finish building them the way I wanted. That is probably the nicest looking 2-6-0 that was ever built and why I chose it to model. Harold Volrath in Kansas had all the photos of that loco in his collection and I bought copies of all of them.
I'm located in Ann Arbor, MI if U ever come that way. Would be glad to show you what I have but will not be back from Florida until mid April.

Good luck,
Jim Gould
0-4-0
4-6-0
4-4-2
4-4-0
2-6-0(2)
5 batt elec
44 cars rolling stock
2400' 7 1/2" track
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Dan, that's good to know, I have much to learn about metal castings, I was thinking for some reason the bronze would be easier to deal with then the iron. I always see bronze in investment castings and iron in sand cast.
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Thanks for the pointer Marty, I see Jim Gould of Model Rails has chimed in too.
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Jim, I'm in a western burb of StL. Last time I was up your way was to look at a plane.
Love to see pictures of the M-10's you built.
Where will you be in Florida?
User avatar
Fender
Posts: 3084
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 8:33 pm
Location: Chattanooga TN

Re: Mogul info

Post by Fender »

MsChrissi wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:52 am Dan, that's good to know, I have much to learn about metal castings, I was thinking for some reason the bronze would be easier to deal with then the iron. I always see bronze in investment castings and iron in sand cast.
Certainly bronze is more tidy to machine than C.I., which makes a lot of black dust. And bronze won't rust like iron. However, cylinders usually have a liner in the bore, and the liner can be either metal.
Dan Watson
Chattanooga, TN
hoppercar
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:09 pm

Re: Mogul info

Post by hoppercar »

Was surprised to see someone mention mobile and gulf, number 97....I used to fire that engine, in frenchlick indiana......regretfully, it now sits in the weeds, a rusting heap of junk
MsChrissi
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:21 pm
Location: Mid West

Re: Mogul info

Post by MsChrissi »

Fender wrote: Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:29 am Certainly bronze is more tidy to machine than C.I., which makes a lot of black dust. And bronze won't rust like iron. However, cylinders usually have a liner in the bore, and the liner can be either metal.
Yes, that was why I was thinking bronze all the way. I see more people home investment casting bronze than sand casting iron plus the possibility of doing a better job of internal passages with vacuum investment than sand and cores. On a different forum I have been following a guy for some years that is having really good success with 3D printed PLA doing lost PLA investment casting. I have a large format 3D printer that can print patterns I am considering upgrading the printer to improve print quality.
Last edited by MsChrissi on Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply