Women in the hobby?

[DianneB]

I have been involved in steam since childhood (which was a LONG time ago!) and noticed that, no matter where I am or what aspect of the hobby I have been involved in, only about 3% of active live steamers are women. I wonder why that is?

As a child, I was fascinated by these gigantic machines that could be standing so quietly one minute and shaking the ground the next, these machines that delivered all sorts of commodities all over the continent, the things that made a comfortable life possible.

I also loved "steam people", the kind and grandfatherly gentlemen who operated these steam engines. They always seemed to have time to interact kindly with an interested child.

Sure, I recognized the work was hot and dirty - like my father's - he was a mechanic - but I still wanted to be a locomotive engineer. My father dissuaded me - I didn't understand about sexism at that age - but he was right about steam locomotives disappearing by the time I grew up. I discovered steam engines that didn't need tracks when I was in my teems. The people were the same and the engines were the same (only smaller) and my involvement continued for many decades after that.

So I wonder why our hobby doesn't attract more women?

Thoughts?

[Benjamin Maggi]

A bunch of old, crust men yelling and talking probably won't attract women... they only attract other old, crusty men.

One could ask why men aren't drawn more to knitting and sewing.

[cbrew]

I would say its the same reason why the % of women being involved in the STEM industries. not everyone is cut out for it.

[cp4449]

Oh, I know a few.....and being that on some days you can not tell the difference between the crusty old men and the crusty old women....well that says something about our hobby.....

[NP317]

DianneB asked:
"So I wonder why our hobby doesn't attract more women?"

Historically sexist society and people! Happily, there are examples of this trend being bucked. You perhaps?

My Parents raised a daughter and two sons. Our Father treated us all pretty much the same. Remarkable for his generation. He was born in 1923.
Our Mother was a Concert Pianist, prior to having children. We all inherited music from her.
My sister was recently reminiscing with me about growing up, and she remarked how our Dad always gave her the same opportunities as we sons got, and how she was aware that this was not "normal" compared to her other friends' families.
We remembered Dad teaching her how to change car tires and tune up engines, before he'd let her get a driver's license! Best of all, she always felt equal. And capable.

So we three kids all pursued our own unique interests.
My sister became an internationally known cellist; Remains so today.
My brother survived as a US Air Force fighter pilot, and later a 777 Captain for American Airlines.
I was born with The Steam Interest and became a steam locomotive engineer, WAAAAY after steamers had been retired(!) I also became a mechanical-type person, despite my first jobs as a classical violinist.
Quite a diverse result, for three siblings.

But I do think our society is still struggling under an historic misogynistic culture. Or at least paternalistic.
I have hopes for continued cultural enlightenment and growth.
We will all benefit from such changes. Nothing to fear from this!
~RN

[tornitore45]

NP13 hit the nail on the head. Parents like his are still a rarity but society changes are happening, not fast enough though.
On top of that add that most modern children of both gender are functionally inept at any manual skill except the two thumbs typing on a fancy phone.
Just yesterday spent hours with grandson trying to teach him how to handle a hand saw, something I learned after watching someone doing it for 3 minutes.

[Carrdo]

Basic psychology.

Men are interested in things.

Women are interested in people.

[Steggy]

I have been involved in steam since childhood (which was a LONG time ago!) and noticed that, no matter where I am or what aspect of the hobby I have been involved in, only about 3% of active live steamers are women. I wonder why that is?

The dirt and grease associated with machinery in general is incompatible with fancy hair-dos, heavy makeup and long eyelashes.

More seriously, and ironically, women are to blame for much of this. Children are mostly raised by women, not men, so most children are subjected to the gender biases of women, not men. Girls are subtly indoctrinated to be girly and not be like those dirty, little boys they see in the neighborhood. Being girly and not being like a dirty, little boy means not playing with trucks, trains and the other things dirty, little boys like. Instead, being girly means playing with dolls, obsessing over clothes and—nowadays—posting biting comments on social media.

Religion also plays a role in some cases. Religion has historically treated women very differently than men and in many cases, has institutionalized the type-casting of women as being the nurturers and keepers of the home. At the same time, men are institutionalized as the bread-winners and hence the ones who work on the machines that make the world run. Woe be it to the woman who violates that dogma and tries to earn a living by getting her hands greasy and dirty. She belongs in an office, school or medical care facility, not a railroad's backshop.

Modern society is attempting to efface the differences, with less-than-sterling results. Feminists insist women have equality with men in all respects—until the grimy underbelly of equality produces the inevitable unforeseen consequences, e.g., female police officers being gunned down in the line of duty. Progressives push equality until they realize there are aspects of equality they don't like, such as female recruits being profanely berated by a Marine drill sergeant in the same way the male recruits are being berated. I won't even mention the horrors of having to engage in physical activities that cause the equality-seeking woman to experience the level of discomfort her male counterparts routinely experience.

So I'd have to hazard a guess that social inertia, more than anything else, is why so few female Live Steamers are around. Despite all the progressive rhetoric we hear, women continue to expect special treatment, which often includes not being expected to endure the indignities that we dirty, little boys seem to enjoy.

[Steggy]

Almost forgot to mention...I've been professionally involved with computers since 1970, and went full-time as a self-employed computer jock 30 years ago. In all that time, I have met one female computer programmer, and have never encountered any woman who knows anything about assembly language, chip registers or any of that sort of stuff—all things that I routinely work with, and seem to be the province of males only.

Back in my railroad days, the only women I would have seen around a yard, backshop, or locomotive or car builder's facility would have been office staff. There were no women designing, building or fixing locomotives, cars, trackwork, etc., even as late as 1989, when I got out of it and went full-time with my computer business.

I certainly don't think women are incapable of doing that sort of work—Rosie Riveter settled that issue during World War II. Again, I think our largely feminized society has had a hand in steering girls away from the sciences, as science and technology are things dirty, little boys like (or at least did like back when I was a dirty, little boy—not sure what it is dirty, little boys like these days).

[michaellynn2]

I have a sister that is involved with the Fire Up 611 Program. I included her in all my train chases and live steam events since she was 6 years old. Now it is in her blood. Maybe some of you will have seen her in the fire mans seat on the 611. Does she ever get dirty and sooty. She is not involved in the construction of a live steamer but she will be there when it makes steam. She even married a NS railroading man.
I have an issue of TRAINS magazine with her in it! My wonderful sister Cheri George

[DianneB]

In all that time, I have met one female computer programmer, and have never encountered any woman who knows anything about assembly language, chip registers or any of that sort of stuff—all things that I routinely work with ,,,,,

Oh I LOVED Assembly language and micro processing! I worked in that field from 1978 to 1986 and even worked with another female /designer/programmer! It is SO detailed and precise I always figured it was a great job for women! I still have a 6800 development system

[Pontiacguy1]

I think it is a little bit of all of the things people have been saying... It occurs to me that some people just like different things, and that this is a hobby that in general appeals more to men than to women. I say in general, because there is always going to be some crossover, and we as individuals are all given different skills, talents, and desires. I have one daughter who loves to go run the train. She doesn't mind getting dirty or working around in the shop sometimes, as long as she's expecting it and is dressed for it mind you. My other daughter does not like to get dirty at all, and hasn't liked it ever since she was a little bitty thing, waaaay to young for any type of societal programming to kick in. May be anti-PC to say, but women and men aren't the same physically or mentally, and that tends to come out in a lot of different ways, including the things we are drawn to or interested in.