Plate/Pan-Style Propane Burners

[Taggart]

I was doing some research for a new burner for my 4-4-0 American and I came across some of DianneB's older posts about her engine. She mentions a plate-style burner that she installed that they use up at Manitoba. I can't seem to find anything else about this style of burner or how to construct one. here is the photo I found from her engine:

I'm debating two directions. Either making one of these or going with a manifold/Martyburner type situation. But I'd like to know more about these pan burners. Anyone have any photos/build info or other information about these?

Here is the firebox on my American. Looking for something suitable for this. Firebox is about 4" x 5.5" x 5" deep.

[Bill Shields]

i have some of the plate style 'plates' about that size, but you need to build the carrier, venturi, etc:

I have a friend in Germany who has built a couple, and they seem to work just fine..

it is just another project that i have not 'gotten around toit' yet.

[Wayne Davis]

I have a file with information that I will send to you. It is to big to attach.

Wayne

[Wayne Davis]

It is to big to private message also. I will add it in a couple posts.

Wayne

1” Propane Box Burner

It took a while to find info. I have scanned some old poor quality pictures but hopefully they will show enough.

The burner is a box with 3/8" OD tubes through it on about a 20mm grid. I used 16 brass sheet to make the box with about 3/8" to 1/2" between top and bottom. There is a space in the centre with no tubes because the feed tube comes in at the bottom. The feed tube is a 3/4" nominal copper plumbing pipe. On the top (firebox) side of the burner, there are 8 #67 holes drilled around each tube. The tubes through the burner provide the secondary air. For the LE pacific burner there are a total of 74 tubes. The #67 holes are probably on the small side. I have used #60 on other burners.

The pictures show the general arrangement of the burner and the primary air / fuel mixer. There is a slight venturi in the main feed pipe. The propane nozzle has about a #68 to #60 hole if I remember correctly. I can't find my records on that. In any case a little experimentation is required.

The regulator at the tank is set to about 40 PSI. I use a valve from a small propane torch as the control valve. Works very well.

I get a nice blue flame with no yellow. I run with a small amount of blower on so I don't need to worry about that when I turn the burner down.

[Wayne Davis]

Pictures. I have not built one of these.

[Pontiacguy1]

This looks very similar to the Vic Shattock plate burner that he used to Alcohol fire locomotives. He used it to fire 1/2" and 3/4" scale locomotives, and maybe some 1" locomotives. There were a lot of steam engines built with that burner. Since it was alcohol, you had to heat the burner plate up enough to evaporate the alcohol at first, then the heat from the flames would keep it hot enough to evaporate.

[Taggart]

This is all great info! Thank you.

I'm assuming all tubes and seams are brazed. Wouldn't the firebox get hot enough to weaken the brazing?

[NP317]

Here is previous discussion on propane burners the might be of interest to you:
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... ane+burner
RussN

[Bill Shields]

actually...the inflow of fuel gas and air act as a cooling agent to keep the temperature down.

no fuel gas -> no air flow - no cooling -> no flame -> no heat - no problem

I wouldn't SOFT SOLDER it, but a good hard solder and / or brazing rod would be just fine...

[gwrdriver]

Technically speaking, the materials would lose strength (tensile and shear) as temperatures rose, but not IMHO to the point of a meltdown. Anything can happen of course, especially if the burner system is badly designed, built, and operated, but assuming the foregoing are well done, the gas flames, even at their hottest, it would be unlikely to heat the burner materials enough to weaken them to the point of failure. Full combustion gas temperature doesn't occur on the burner itself, but at some distance above or along the path of the burning gas.

(And what Bill said)

After much experimentation Bill Connor, of grasshopper engine fame, developed a very efficient and reliable propane burner for his boilers. All his boilers were vertical so his burners were disk-shaped and had penetrations, like mini-flues, which he explained played a role in creating the air flow which helped make them successful. Whether his design could be built in the rectangular and have the same success, I don't know.

[Bill Shields]

what you are seeing is VERY SIMILAR to Bill Connor's design with the sides flattened.

yes, his stuff was steel / welded but....

I have pictures of one of Connor's burners if you like...they make more heat then you know what to do with...

the big trick to all of these designs is to 'squeeze it in'...

[Taggart]

Getting the air to fuel mix right with those is the interesting thing to me. Seems like you would have a very narrow tolerance to maximize BTUs before you get an overly rich mix. I guess you could compensate with more pressure, but that introduces other complications. Still interesting nonetheless.