This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

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shild
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Joined: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:58 pm

This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by shild » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:52 pm

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Here is my workbench setup. Basically an X3 mill on a desk just like the desk Sergeant Getraer of CHiP's uses. I did most of what you guys said to do in my post about how to machine faster. I do the stick method, I angled the tooling racks, have a rack for the most used tools on the table so no opening drawers, counterweight for head, additional grooves in vice jaws, the keyway on every collet has a wide opening now so it goes in faster, magnet on side of head for drawbar wrench, groove to show where keyway in spindle is, chamfered the ends of the T-slots so t-nuts can go in faster among other things. Could not get myself a bigger mill as some of you suggested because can't bring that into this apartment. What else can I do to be a faster machinist? Guess I could still get a keyless chuck couldn't I? But would still need a keyed chuck because that holds taps tighter doesn't it? Also, what do you guys suggest be in each of the drawers? Bottom right is dedicated to bar stock. center drawer is for taps.
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My head counterweight system.
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I cut an additional groove going up and down here.
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Got to get rid of one of those oil cans, don't I?
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2 flute endmills in back, 4 flute in front. I leave collets on endmills for faster changes.
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3/8" endmills and 1/4" here.
Last edited by shild on Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.

shild
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by shild » Sun Dec 13, 2020 4:56 pm

Oh yeah, those are shorty drill bits. So less cranking of the head when I go from an endmill collet to the drill chuck. Speaking of which, I probably shouldn't get just any R8 keyless chuck but a shortened one. so even less head cranking when switching between endmill collets and drill chuck?

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Builder01
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by Builder01 » Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:59 pm

What can be done to improve it? Start making chips! LOL! What is your first project going to be?

pete
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by pete » Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:00 pm

Keyless drill chucks do have a few important design issues that many don't know of, nor does it seem to be common knowledge. Albrecht keyless are arguably the best made. But even they have the same issues. There not made for or meant to be used with reduced shank S&D type drills. Nor are they meant to be used for power tapping with larger taps. I don't use mine for anything larger than about a 3/8ths tap. A good keyless is designed to self tighten if what it's holding starts to slip. It's the self tightening that causes real issues with those S&D drills and larger taps. Use something that requires a high level of torque and it self tightens to the point of either deforming the high precision internal parts, or up to a permanent lock up of the chuck itself. That can be an even bigger issue if the drill grabs within the hole for any reason.At that point even a full rebuild kit won't fix the damage. If at any time your having to use a strap wrench to tighten or loosen a keyless it's a sure sign your doing something wrong. Used within there limits they work just fine. So a keyless is a good addition to having a keyed chuck but not a replacement for everything a chuck might be needed for.

For larger drill and taps I just use a collet instead. They hold far better and provide much more rigidity than any keyed or keyless can. That R8 key? I'd remove it. Forrest Addy has mentioned in more than one post it's not if that key is going to shear off sometime, only when it's going to is the unknown. If that key shears and you get unlucky, it can seriously tear up both the tooling shank and the ground spindle recess. In the worst cases, tooling can become wedged into the spindle. If you've got decent tooling with good draw bar threads that key provides no advantage and some possibly serious disadvantages. Any time the subject comes up on the Practical Machinist forums most have said they've removed there keys on any R8 machines there still using.

shild
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by shild » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:00 pm

pete wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:00 pm
That R8 key? I'd remove it. Forrest Addy has mentioned in more than one post it's not if that key is going to shear off sometime, only when it's going to is the unknown. If that key shears and you get unlucky, it can seriously tear up both the tooling shank and the ground spindle recess. In the worst cases, tooling can become wedged into the spindle. If you've got decent tooling with good draw bar threads that key provides no advantage and some possibly serious disadvantages. Any time the subject comes up on the Practical Machinist forums most have said they've removed there keys on any R8 machines there still using.
Didn't know about this. Probably makes a collet change a bit faster. How do I get the key out? Is it a pin you tap out when spindle is out of the mill? Wish I hadn't put that groove in the spindle now.

shild
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by shild » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:02 pm

Builder01 wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 5:59 pm
What can be done to improve it? Start making chips! LOL! What is your first project going to be?
Thinking about making a head stop if I can find a piece of stock the right size. After looking at these pics I cleaned the stains off the table that I had become accustomed to looking at.

pete
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by pete » Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:14 pm

I'm not sure how to remove it on that mill, your mill manual should show that assembly. With a Bridgeport or my clone it's pretty easy and you unscrew the bottom bearing retainer to gain access to it. It's a simple threaded set screw with a reduced tip. Check first that the set screw end hasn't been mushroomed over or bent. If so you'd have to cut the tip off from inside the spindle and then unscrew the rest from the outside.

jcbrock
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by jcbrock » Sun Dec 13, 2020 9:39 pm

pete wrote:
Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:14 pm
With a Bridgeport or my clone it's pretty easy and you unscrew the bottom bearing retainer to gain access to it. It's a simple threaded set screw with a reduced tip. Check first that the set screw end hasn't been mushroomed over or bent. If so you'd have to cut the tip off from inside the spindle and then unscrew the rest from the outside.
The bottom retainer usually requires a pin wrench to unscrew. The key is usually two pieces, the key and then another socket screw covering it. You have to remove the socket screw and then the key.

I agree with Builder01. Start making chips and you'll find what works and what needs to be improved. Speed comes with experience and knowledge learned from that experience.
John Brock

shild
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by shild » Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:02 pm

Another one of the things I'd like to add to the mill besides a head stop is a shift stick. This mill has a huge knob you turn to change gears, I want to replace it with a shift stick that looks like it came from the factory with it.
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Harold_V
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by Harold_V » Mon Dec 14, 2020 4:47 am

Speed?
Until you gain the necessary skills to machine parts reliably, the only thing speed is going to do for you is allow you to scrap things faster.

The toughest lesson I had to learn in my apprenticeship was to work properly. Master the art of backlash control, and learn about roughing and finishing cuts, as well as sequence of operations. Understand feeds and speeds. Understand what constitutes an acceptable approach to a given task. Learn to work properly. Speed will follow. Try to rush it and it will get expensive.

Contrary to the belief of some folks, (proper and reliable) machining requires considerable experience. You can learn the basics from books, but until you've done them repeatedly, you won't be good at machining. It's no different from playing a piano. Practice, practice, practice. That's how you get there.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Pontiacguy1
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:37 am

#1- Put something up over the walls and around behind your mill to keep it from slinging chips up against the wall. It could be something like some plastic floor mats, a shower or tub mat, something, to keep chips off the wall. Doesn't have to be expensive, just something that will work.
#2- Ditto for the floor. If your landlord discovers that you've scratched up the floor with metal chips, you'll likely have to pay for that or at least lose your deposit. A nice, big hard plastic floor mat, something easily swept and cleaned, is what you need.
#3- make sure you have a small shop vac or something that you can suck up the chips with.

It looks to me like a pretty nice small shop area you've set up. I've heard of people having nothing more than a desktop machine shop area with a drill press, a vise, and a 6" or 7" lathe, and they built locomotives in 3/4" scale in that 3'x5' area. Where there's a will, there's a way. You will need to get an indicator and indicate in your mill head and the mill vise so that they are square. Otherwise stuff won't turn out like you expect it to, and you will be wondering why.

Berkman
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Re: This is my workbench now, what can I do to improve it?

Post by Berkman » Mon Dec 14, 2020 9:20 am

That mill is a sieg ?
I guess you did some research and selected that as the best smaller desktop machine?

Curious what lathe you plan on getting?

thanks! Looks great!

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