Vendors, "Faux" locomotives, and the Hobby

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SignalMan
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2003 10:55 pm
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Vendors, "Faux" locomotives, and the Hobby

Post by SignalMan »

I confess I'm hooked. I've spent the past several days scrolling
through the hundreds of messages on this website.
I am hazarding a guess that these forums have become
a "hobby" within a hobby.

This "post" has been fine tuned or edited over a couple of days,
similar to how you might prepare a model for display.
I didn't want off-the-cuff random thinking to be exposed like
rough tool marks, and miss placed hole locations.
Even with such effort, I'm sure there's tangled thinking and flawed
design in this somewhere.

When I think about the amount of time expended on forming the thoughts,
opinions, ideas, dreams, personal gripes, and of course, the trade mark
of most every forum, "the questions"; I wonder how much productive time
has been robbed from the projects sitting on workbenches and outside
along the right-of-way.
The astonishing variety of words, personal observations and so on being
exchanged here coupled with pictures, and "hour by hour" helpful hints is
an overwhelming sign the hobby of "live steaming /slash/ miniature railroading"
is full speed ahead!

With the wave of forums popping up on all kinds of web sites devoted to
various subject matter, I'm some what disappointed the magazines that have
held the live steaming community and outdoor railroading activity together
for so many years have let this kind of gathering slip past them.
Trains magazine hosts forums for example to give you an idea of what I mean.
At the same time, I commend the people behind this forum, and web sites
like Discover Live Steam for instance in seeing the writing on the wall.
Is it possible the founder of The International Brotherhood of Live Steamers
would have embraced this medium had it existed in 1932?
Carl Purinton surely would have set up a web site, don't you think?

I better declare my ignorance early on though, and claim I have vary
little knowledge of steam power. I should also explain that someone
propped me up in a gondola car in 1962 at two years old. And as a result,
I have become addicted to railroading ever since.
So perhaps my observations of this wonderful avocation may be skewed.

I really enjoyed reading Will Jordan's "Several Drifting topics" related to
vendors and the comments leading up to his post. I am also reminding myself
that writing remarks in a public forum for the entire world to see is perhaps
dangerous in some respects for a supplier. I'm a little ole vendor myself,
contributing in a very small way to the growing railroad hobby.
(The term, "railroad hobby" in a steam forum is used because the two have
been together since the beginning.) One never knows how posting opinions
in a forum will affect future customer relations. Maybe this is why we don't
see other suppliers enjoying the banter and rubbing elbows with
fellow customers/enthusiasts.
Of course the real reason may be there simply isn't enough time in the day
to be browsing the Internet and running a business too.

The thread of "vendor" comments and Will's placing of his moderator hat on,
prompted me to reread Bruce Walther's October 1, 1974 explanation of
"why back orders?"
Perhaps it could be repeated here and made note that it's as true today,
as it was in 1974.

"…Model RR manufacturers are dedicated hobbyists, creative geniuses, and
talented craftsmen, but that's not enough -- they have to be production planners,
purchasers, market research experts, and personnel managers as well.
When you start making a business out of your hobby, you have to be a
business man first and a hobbyist second.
Some can't do this. Model Railroad Manufacturers have health and help problems,
die difficulties, money problems, and problems getting parts from other suppliers.
Any and all of these are used to explain WHY a particular kit or part is not available.
Some seem to be hit harder and more often than others, but the
result is the same…"

I wish I could have read first hand the New York Times report leading to the
posts about the state of the hobby. My magazine subscriptions go un-renewed
at times, so I missed the Live Steam issue that highlighted the article.
I believe there is a confidence among many the future of this hobby is a given.
It will continue to grow easily for the next decade. The number of and type of
available products will increase. The acceptance of products that many
old timers will / would still scuff at, are on the way.

The on going discussion of the "Faux locomotive" has taken on the expected
entertaining and predictable twist.
People new to outdoor size railroading should be made aware that the friendly
contempt for one mode of power over another is nothing new in this hobby.
It could be tossed in with the battle of the gauges, the rivet counters convention,
and perhaps the pioneering tin-platers.

Because the thrust of the hobby has shifted more toward "railroad" for the
sake of railroading instead of relying on the tool of the magnificent live steam
locomotive, it seems only natural that electric or otherwise powered
steam type locomotives will be a part of the mix.

Consider the fact that it was only back in 1989, that Metal Working News was
printing articles on the subject of plastic automobiles.
Comments like, "…The final determination will depend on market demand,
cost pressures and (auto industry) management acceptance."
(The truck in my driveway has metal fenders. Yet my daughter
drives a plastic car.)

I know of one man out there developing an "E-steamer" already.
Frankly, I'm surprised any one of the prominent diesel makers has not
positioned themselves with a product. Or have they?
They already have the traction engineering research behind them.

I don't believe the essence of this hobby is founded on a particular mode
of power. Nor is it carved out by the tools you use.
Alan Stepney's post regarding tools and construction methods was right on.
I absolutely love the North American Model Engineering show held each year
in Michigan. I do have to admit though, I've never cared for portions of
the N.A.M.E.S. description of "What Makes a Model Engineer?" found in
the yearly hand out one receives during the show.The idea of a modeler
reaching an advanced level of modeling because they are using machining processes
such as computer numerical control, electrical discharge machining,
and so on is something I read in one ear, and out the other. How would this be
explained to someone whom spent 10,000 hours of his time building an
immaculate, faithfully reproduced locomotive between 1922-1924?

Once upon a time, I remember being unsure about putting forth so much time,
thought, and money toward a project that the average member of the population
would rather spend on camping equipment, snowmobiles, boats, fancy cars,
the latest entertainment gizmos, etc. But anyone reading these messages knows,
in the end, it's all about what brings you, your-self pleasure. People are still
making pottery, they are still painting on canvas, they are starting to play with
their computers, and there's a select group that will still be making real live
steam engines. And that's pretty cool.

Perhaps sometime soon, a forum with railroaders constructing locomotives
powered by fuel cells may have more than a handful of members. I dread the
thought of spending several years learning how to make one, gathering the
exotic materials etc. only to discover it's cheaper to by one at Sears.

John D. Atkinson
ehulshiz

Re: Vendors, "Faux" locomotives, and the Hobby

Post by ehulshiz »

Hello!
Your input is welcome here, same as everyone else's. Glad you enjoy this forum- I can't get enough of it. The "how-to, and "where to get it" information is priceless, and the strong mix of personalities and opinions found here will get you "well-rounded" in a hurry.
Regarding this board being a hobby within a hobby, ABSOLUTELY!! I look in two or three times a day, and I enjoy the visits at least as much as I enjoy making chips in my shop. There are people from all over the world posting here, all (mostly) on one subject.
With just one post I can see that you bring perspective, and a centrist viewpoint to the table. ( How's that for some two dollar words, C. Ray?)
C_Ray
Posts: 97
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2003 11:50 pm
Location: Troutdale, Oregon The great PacNorWet

Re: Vendors, "Faux" locomotives, and the Hobby

Post by C_Ray »

Ed, gimme a minute, I'm getting out my dictionary as I read... [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/wink.gif"%20alt="[/img]

But, I must concor with the both of you & actually take the concept of this forum being a hobby one step further: Everyone who knows me knows I have built a handfull of store bought kit engines, one scratchbuilt junkdrawer engine, and a lot of dreams. I have never run a lathe myself, nor any other "machine," only everyday workbench power equipment. Thusly, yes, this board IS my live steam hobby! Most of you use it as an extention of your live steam hobby to cuss and discuss what you do, I cuss and discuss what I'm learning and hope to do someday.

C.Ray (I never have hidden these facts, 'member that! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img])

PS Unka J, have ya found anyone ta play the washboard in yer band yet? [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img]
UnkaJesse
Posts: 4090
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:29 pm
Location: Tennessee, Obion County, Town of Troy

Washboard

Post by UnkaJesse »

C.Ray, No we haven't a washboard player yet as you can see by the new bio pic.

PS: That's me with the beard.

Unka(Are you applying for the job?)Jesse
"The same hammer that breaks the glass, forges the steel" Russian proverb
User avatar
Fred_V
Posts: 4370
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:26 pm

Re: Washboard

Post by Fred_V »

hey Jesse, do you really play banjo?
fred v
Fred V
Pensacola, Fl.
UnkaJesse
Posts: 4090
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:29 pm
Location: Tennessee, Obion County, Town of Troy

Re: Washboard

Post by UnkaJesse »

Fred, I am the most musically un-inclined person you ever saw! I cannot carry a tune in a bucket with a lid on top as my Mother used to say. The only musical instrument I can make any type sound on is a bugle and I can't hit many notes with that. Used to use it to call the kids home for supper etc when we lived in Jackson. All the neighbors loved that one!!! I have been looking at trying a didgeradoo made from PVC pipe, but been too busy with the Newbie Project to make any attempt at playing one yet.

Unka(I did buy a piece of PVC pipe though, maybe this winter?)Jesse
"The same hammer that breaks the glass, forges the steel" Russian proverb
User avatar
Fred_V
Posts: 4370
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:26 pm

Re: Washboard

Post by Fred_V »

OK, i couldn't tell from the post. you know we play bluegrass and sing RR songs at the mid south meets up at the pavilion at night. you could join in if you want.
fred v
Fred V
Pensacola, Fl.
themnax
Posts: 104
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 11:36 am
Location: a small green planet in a distant galaxy (actualy roseville california)

Re: Washboard

Post by themnax »

ok now i know this is waay aawwwff topic even for this thread
but didja know? nearly every home has an object that could be
played a little somethin like a didjeri du. if'n you got a
vacume cleaner with that pair of rigid extensions so you can use
while stinding up, shucks, you might even have em on yer shop vac.

well there you go. a hollow tube blow, hum and growl into to your
heart's content. the smaller diameter ones you can play like you
would your bugal. i don't know if every kid (or kid at heart) has
ever done that, but i know i've been known to from time to time.

back to electric steam engines. i'd swear i saw heard one in sacramento
a year or so ago. least wise i sure didn't see any steam coming out of
it, it was running just fine, and the sound sure sounded like a synthasized
sound system. i mean it looked like a steamer. but it sure sounded like
some kind of sound system.

i have no idea who'se it was. it looked a lot like one of those allen
moguls only i think it was a consolidation of that same late 1800s era.
i didn't get close enough to it for very long. i was right next to the
track when it went by though and i would have sworn i heard the hum of
electric motors. it was totaly clean, moving under it's own power, and
there wasn't any steam comming out of it anywhere.

i couldn't help noticing how extremely odd that seemed
it's all about what you have fun with of course
i'd still like to just put some traction motors and batteries under
some rider cars and opperate them as a train of m.u. cars.

not tryin to be a model of anything
but a prototype of 'ultra-light' rail micro transit

=^^=
.../\...
stay well and keep doing the wonderful things that you do ... ~;)
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