Narrow Gauge Prototype - "Original Builders Drawings&qu

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LivingLegend
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Location: The Boonies of Alabama

Post by LivingLegend » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:03 pm

From a copy I had made of the L2's spec book (350 pages), I got a lot of the drawing numbers for almost everything used on the loco from Timkin. Timkin made the copies of the micro-filmed drawings and, at that time (late '80's), didn't charge me a dime for repro or shipping.

I had the L2's tender brake arrangement drawing number. Got in touch with American Steel Foundries in Chicago. They looked up the drawings on their micro-film and and made copies of that drawing as well as almost all the others used on that tender/tender truck brakes for me. All it cost me at ASF was a contribution to the engineering office donut fund.

On the other hand, some sources/companies will stick it to you like Buckeye did to me. $25 or $30 for the tender truck arrangement drawing. And an in house blueprint copy off the drawings original tracing at that!

Some companies, even if I offered to pay for a workers time to look up and pull the drawings gave the cold shoulder.

I checked out all sources.... From those I've mentioned to Pyle-National to WABCO (Westinghouse) and more.

The various RR historical societies/museums have, or are finally in the process of making drawings available. The C&O and Union Pacific Historical Societies are but two of them.

One collector I knew (a real rectal oriface) told me flat out, and I quote... " I've got it, and you don't. Don't waste my time. I don't sell or share anything I've got with anyone." This same a**hole would then go out and ask others to share or make him copies of THEIR collection available to HIM. What a piece of work! Mama must have been proud.

There are many other souces for drawings. The only drawings that I had interest in from the places I went looking was, for for the most part, had to do with the L2.

Unfortunately, these days, most of what I have for the L2 are the xerox "work" copies for that engine that were not ment to be archival quality. The good quality master copies I left with a friend of the family for safe keeping..... BIG MISTAKE! He, unfortunately, died around 10-years ago and his wife not knowing what they were 86'd them. Plus, I had as lot of stuff stolen from my storage after I moved from L.A. And I recently discovered damage to some things related to Katrina from a couple of years ago. My collection these days is next to nothing compared to some of what I once had... And, at this point in my life, I have no desire to go ape sh*t crazy trying to again research stuff like I once did. If it isn't easily or readily available, and at a reasonable price.... the hell with it!

LL
Do it right.... Or don't do it at all
I have no life. Therefore, I have a hobby
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Loco112
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You guys have private messages.

Post by Loco112 » Sat Apr 21, 2007 8:16 pm

LL, call me, I sent you a private message.

David from MG&W I also sent you one, call me.
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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Dick_Morris
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Location: Anchorage, AK

Post by Dick_Morris » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:21 pm

The Pennsylvania State Archives apparently have some Baldwin Drawings. In 2000 I was looking for drawings for the WW-II S-160 Consolidations and learned that the archives had some Baldwin drawings. Most of what they have apparently wasn't indexed at that time and the only one they could come up was a tender tank drawing that a volunteer found.

This is from an email I received from the Pennsylvania Archives:
Our construction number books do not tell us drawing numbers, but give us information about the purchasers that leads us to the sales order books.

Unfortunately, few sales order books for that time period are located and processed. Many remain hidden in later accruals of administrative records that have yet to be sorted through ( it could be years - state government records are our mandated priority, and we can only tend to our corporate archives as time permits). Some of the sales order books we have uncovered give lists of Baldwin drawing numbers that we have, and some give lists of other drawing numbers - such as those for Alco - which we do not have (i.e. the equipment in question was not built, or not built entirely, by Baldwin).
Around the same time, I got a copy of the Lima card index (about 1509-200 11" x 17" pages) for the S-160 from the California Rail Museum - examples of these locomotives were made by Baldwin, Lima, and ALCO. Interestingly, a number of the drawings indexed by LIMA are from Baldwin. From the types drawings done by Baldwin, I suspect they may have done the initial design.

About the only protype drawings I have are an S-160 side elevation and sections blown up from a microfiche, the S-160 tender tank, an MO-6 turbogenerator outline drawing - the same one that is in the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia, and a later model (1942) E2 Turbogenerator outline drawing.

Another interesting source of prototype information is the cira 1949 Baldwing Steam Locomotive Standards that used to be available as a reprint from Little River Locomotive Company. There are three volumes at about 175 or 200 pages each. They cover information on ordering a locomotive, standard material specs, and drawings/dimensions for a lot of standard hardware items such as bolts, cotter keys, and pipe fittings. A random example of the degree of detail is the an entry titled "Main Rod" which says, "Ratio of length to stroke must not be less than 3-1/2, preferably 4. For main rods 88" and over in length, use I section bodies. For lengths under 88" - use rectangular section bodies." Recently I read a section that instructed which box each of the pieces were to be packed in when the locomotive was being shipped overseas. It appears that some of them were no better than a locomotive kit.

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Curtis_F
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Re: builders drawings

Post by Curtis_F » Sun Apr 22, 2007 1:29 am

Loco112 wrote:Congrats on your Baldwin North Pacific Coast "Sonoma" set. You know, Erich Thomson is the person that ordered those from Baldwin long ago and he donated them to the CRM after he decided that the “Sonoma” was a bit too lite weight for his RR projects.
I was just beginning to get to know Erich and pick his brain when he passed away. As I understand it Erich wanted to do his own thing instead of making models. He also already had the cylinder casting from his RVRY #4, which he ended up using on all of his engines.

As to power, Frank Allan's "Sonoma" (which has a hollow tubular frame) can pull as well as the RVRY #4 or #5. If it had been of a real model with solid frames and all the appropriate castings it could probably out pull the RVRY #11 as well.

I also have all of Frank Allan's field notes that he made for his 4-4-0. I won't call it a "model" as there's almost nothing protoytpical about it aside from the paint job.
"That WSL #10 is a neat shay, keep after that set! That would also make a great 3” scale 9” gauge loco,
No way I'm quitting now. I have hundreds of hours spent dealing with sources to get what I have thus far, and thousands of dollars on reproduction costs and trips to photo/measure the real engine. Not to mention a few thoustand hours making 3D models of the engine in 2.5" and 5" scale. To quit now would be a waste of my time.
I will have 3”-scale 8+1/2” x 150 cc pumps that will bolt right on there in about a year.
That would be impressive. I just got the first article castings on a 5" scale WABCo 9-1/2" pump from the foundry. It's was such as hastle working through the design. Then the patternmaker balked at all the tiny cores, but he made it all work out. Beautiful castings. Now I have to machine them and see it it'll work in the real world like it does on paper. Yeah, I'm sure there'll be some adjustments.

And, no I didn't have WABCo drawings to work off of. I took a real 9-1/2" pump apart and measured every piece. Took weeks to do it, but I have all the information now to make one in any scale.
"I have copies of all John Maxwell's C-16 drawings".
-Good effort, but this is where Maxwell dropped the ball.
There are over 150 drawings for that locomotives and John didn't do a good job collecting them all.
I do know where the whole set is and its possible to can get them for you, but it will not be easy. I'll have to do some dealing to get that done, as the owners of those drawings don't like us drawing hunteres and they think their drawings are worth a "fortune". I'll try to get a whole set form them as that is the easiest way most times.
Thank you very much for the offfer, but I mainly bought the C-16 drawings for reference in determining Baldwin standard practices of the 1870s and 1880s. As much as I like to watch C-16s run, I have no desire to build one. Save your dealing for someone else who would put the drawings to good use and build a model.


Cheers,

Curtis F.
16 Years of SolidWorks experience...now I feel old.
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink."
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Loco112
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WABCO 9 1/2" single steam drive air pump drawings coop?

Post by Loco112 » Mon May 07, 2007 5:41 pm

Anyone willing to pitch in on the real WABCO drawing set for the 9 1/2" single cylinder steam drive air pump drawings? If I could get a group of men to commit to put in their portion of the total I would split it all up between everyone and you would all get a good deal. Lets say $100 each, and I need 6 other men and me that’s 7. Put your names on this topic and when we get enough names I will contact all of you, get your portion of the cost and go buy the set. I’ll then make the copies and mail you set, if we get to 6 men, if not we may have to pay more or wait till we get there, but if its not together in a month I’ll withdraw the offer. Its practically free at $100 each considering how much time and effort and money I have in finding this set. It may end up costing a bit less than the $100 each, but don't sign up unless you are willing to pay the full $100, as I don't want to hear from half of you saying that you were hoping it would be less and then have you quit the deal at the last minute becasuse it actually does cost the $100 each.

Do one of you want to post a good photo of the prototype pump as I can't find a good photo, only line drawings.
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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FLtenwheeler
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Location: Florida, on the Lake Wales Ridge

Post by FLtenwheeler » Mon May 07, 2007 7:50 pm

Please put me in for a set of drawings for the WABCO 9 1/2" pump.

How many drawings are in the set?

Thanks

Tim
He who dies with the most unfinished projects: Should of put more time into their hobby.

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Loco112
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How many drawings are in the set?

Post by Loco112 » Mon May 07, 2007 8:50 pm

How many drawings are in the set?
Tim,
I don't know as that is one of the few sets that I don't have in my hands right now. I will make sure the set is complete before I make the deal. You won't risk anything as I will make the deal and check out the set prior to committing my money, and then I will basically sell you guys your individual sets.

I do have the 8 1/2 CC pump set and they share a lot of valves and fittings, so I can supplement the 9 1/2" single set if I need to, as its usually the small parts the people forget to copy and thus they end up not in sets. This set is different, as I know the history, where they came from and when and it should be a good complete set, if its not its still more complete than any other set you I or anyone else knows about.

It may take a while for me to get to get the coop group together though, so be patient.

The guy that controls that drawing set wants some drawings that I have already for the trade, so I know I can get the set when we get all the guys in our little coop together.
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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Loco112
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Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA

Narrow Gauge drawing sets you want to buy/sell/trade

Post by Loco112 » Mon May 14, 2007 1:23 pm

Lets change the topic to "what Narrow Gauge drawing sets you would like to buy/sell/trade for, etc." We will all post what we are looking for and what we have to trade, and try to find others that also have something to trade or sell, and this will allow us to find what we all need if its out there.

I spoke to a gentleman today that knew of about 5 different individuals that each had a pretty neat set of drawings for quite a few different NG locos, so maybe we can get some of those guys to join in.

We have to put our heads together on these or we will never get the drawings we need, so post away.

Remember all the ALCO drawings are gone other than the K28, most of the Baldwin stuff is limited to the locomotives that still exits (K27, K36, K37, C16 C17-C18, C19 are out there), so keep that in mind. Appliances and parts are mostly still available and if we get a group together we can get them, so post post post.
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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Loco112
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:09 pm
Location: Dallas ,Texas. USA

New “Origianl Builders Drawings” Yahoo group

Post by Loco112 » Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:29 am

There is a new Yahoo group to discuss “Origianl Builders Drawings” for narrow gauge prototypes, it can be seen at;

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NarrowGau ... id=2925183

its called; NarrowGaugeRailroadDrawingsPlans

For all you rivet counters that need good accurate and original drawings, I hope you will join and help us and yourself to find great information for that long planned project that we all have.

Regards
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

holtSteamer
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:13 pm
Location: Menifee, CA

Post by holtSteamer » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:18 pm

I would be interested in getting plans for the C-19 circa 1881, but I am looking to build in 5", so I can play w/RVRR, H&WRR, and JTSRR. Pretty new to this but gathering information is the best place to start.

RICHK
Posts: 50
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 2:05 pm
Location: Seattle

k 36 spreadsheet

Post by RICHK » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:09 am

Hello all,
This thread seems to have become inactive for some time now.
Still I am wondering where I can find the promised document, where was it posted?
To quote Loco112 "I'm going to be posting the K-36 excel sheet on a web site pretty soon so you can get it when It goes up. "

tomc
Posts: 336
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 7:04 pm
Location: Sw of the Windy City

Post by tomc » Fri Jun 19, 2009 12:06 pm

Rich, It probably is at his Yahoo group site mentioned above. You should join up and harvest what he has posted in the files section.

Tom C.
tom_at_srclry_com
Lost somewhere in Michigan!

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