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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:23 pm 
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Location: Reedley, Ca. 93274
As I'm getting ready to change living quarters I came across some assembly drawings I bought from Roger Goldmann for the Worthington #4 BL2 Feedwater Heater. Quite and interresting piece of machinery in it's own right.

One thing I've haven't figured out is how the valve on the steam cylinder works. It's a steam operated shuttle valve, but I can't locate where the valve that controls it is. Is it acutated by something down by the Cold or Hot water pumps?

Can anyone shed some light on this?


Thank you all for your time,

Curtis F.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 4:54 pm 
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Curtis,

Very good question. Most of the guys that would know the answer are suffering from lack of memory or dead.

Could the control valve be the one in the cab on the firing manifold that was labeled feedwaterheater?

This sounds like a good question for Living Legend to respond to.

The answer will be interesting and educational!

Robert


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:29 pm 
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Robert: (and Curtis):

When I don't know something, I come right out and say it. I've never looked into the details of a Worthington BL Pump/Heater.

I have a feeling, though, that the operation of the BL's valve works the same, or similar to the steam valve on Worthington's S or SA hot water pump. Been so long since I looked into the SA I've forgotten how the steam valve works on it too. Don't know if they had a reversing valve to the shuttle valve or not.

Couldn't have asked about the SA Cold Water Pump or Heater? Those I remember about.

I've got a Worthington manual around here somewhere one of the boxes I've got packed to move. I'll take a look for the SA manual and let you know. It's one of few things I should have easy access to around here.

LL

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 Post subject: B type heaters
PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:26 pm 
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Curtis,

Worthington had 3 models of heaters.

The B, as in 3-B, is the original type, was equiped with 3 steam valves, and had a straight horizontal surface for the bottom of the pump.

The BL, as in again size 3-BL, has the redesigned bottom casting that has the jog in the bottom surface.

The BL-2, as in size 3BL-2, is the BL with a new valve system, that only has one steam valve.

You can tell by most photos which model you are looking at, but often it is tough to tell the size. Catalog sizes I have seen mentioned range from 1 to 4 1/2, which also included a 4 1/4 model as well. I have also seen a size 5, which I seem to remember as being a type B.

The type S heater also had the 3 valve arrangement, and like the B and BL series, could be upgraded to the single steam valve, becoming the type S-2. The S type heater built with the single valve was the SA type.

This is the basic run down on the pumps.

I would be interested in hearing the locations of any locomotives that still have the B, BL or BL2 pumps on them.

The SP 5000's were built with the type B, but do you know what size they were? Does any one know what size is on the PRR I1s that is near Buffalo?

Regards,

Doug.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 10:50 pm 
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Doug:

There's the SP 5021 (a 3-cylinder 4-10-2 like Curtis is modeling) at the Los Angeles County Fairgrounds in Pomona. I believe it still has one of the B(x) series pump.

I was told years ago (maybe by John Mueller.... don't remember for sure) that the SP drilled holes into the pump's coring to make it unusable before the gave the engine to the RLHS Pacific Coast chapter.... Didn't want the engine to run again, or so I was told. The engine was restored to operation in the 1970's. Don't know if the pump was repaired or replaced.

-------------------------

Curtis:

I would suggest that you contact John (Mueller). John worked on the engine when the repairs (at the fairgrounds) was going on. He surely can assist you with questions you might have regarding the engine.

LL

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 11:17 pm 
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Doug, LL, thank you for the replies. Should have known you two would have answers!

----

Doug,

The 5021 has a BL2 on her today. I'd have to measure the steam pipe going tinto it to know if it's a #4 or #4-1/4

Eventually I'll need to figure out how to model a B for my engine, but like I said I have some simple drawings for the BL2, and I have about four dozen photos of the one on the 5021 (still need to take more), so I figuired that it would be a good place to start. If I can figure it out the BL2 the B should be relativly simple to reverse-engineer.

The "plan" is to make it a working water pump, but not heater.

I'll do some research into what size B was on the 5000's when built and get back to you.

-----


LL,

I'll contact the historical society and see if I can track down Mr. Muller.


Take care guys,

Curtis F.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:30 am 
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA
Curtis_F wrote:
I'll contact the historical society and see if I can track down Mr. Muller.


It's been a while since I talked with John, but he was located in Maricopa County, and a member of the Maricopa Live Steamers. Years have gone by---so things may be different now, but that may provide you a place to start looking.

Harold


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 Post subject: john
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 12:51 am 
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Hi Curtis,
I can get a hold of john, I will send him a e mail and see what he knows.
david.

Oh yea the shop tour is still on next time your down here.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 1:46 am 
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Harold:

John is still living in Pheonix.

LL

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 3:42 am 
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Thanks, LL. He's quite the guy! I recall a pump he was building when we first met in the early 90's, a rather large one for, I believe ,15" gauge.

The engine I inherited (from all indications, a LE Pacific. I'm not very bright where locomotives are concerned) belonged to John at one time, and was purchased by Lee Carlson. Like you, it appears he's been very active in the hobby for many years.

Harold


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:45 am 
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Harold:

Lee Carlson's 4-6-2 was built by Frank Venolia. Been so long ago, but I think John bought the engine directly from Frank. Maybe SRRL5 can jump in and set the record straight on that. John later sold the engine to Lee.

John was the one that converted the engine to piston valves.

Frank Venoila was also one of the ones involved with getting SP 5021 at Pomona running again.

You really ought to get the engine back up and running..... That sucker could really perform!!! Was a great steamer.

LL

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:11 am 
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LivingLegend wrote:
Harold:

Lee Carlson's 4-6-2 was built by Frank Venolia. Been so long ago, but I think John bought the engine directly from Frank. Maybe SRRL5 can jump in and set the record straight on that. John later sold the engine to Lee.


Somewhere along the way the engine was named Harry Brown. I don't have a clue about the source of the name. Perhaps others that knew Lee and the history of the engine might lend a little more to the conversation.

Quote:
You really ought to get the engine back up and running.....


I expect that I'll do just that when I'm finished with the building project. I hesitate to get started on anything that has the potential to drag out what has already become unreasonably long.

You may recall that the boiler had failed, but Lee had Bill McReady build a new one. It was never installed, so getting it running will be somewhat a challenge for me. I've never built an engine-----and have much to learn. I don't fear the machining----but I realize that one must abandon the concept of aero-space fits and make 'er loose! Thankfully, none of the motion requires any work, although it's not exactly in full assembly. Lee had dismantled the entire engine and painted various components, plus had plans of converting it to a Hudson. As he aged, he lost interest to the point where it was nothing more than a conversation piece. He had also suffered with his heart, having had a valve replaced a few years before he died. The surgery was nearly fatal, and he never really bounced back well afterwards.

Quote:
That sucker could really perform!!!


Indeed! I witnessed that first hand. Long before all of his health problems began, we were at Train Mountain when the Northern that was built by Denis Riches, and now owned by Chuck Hackett, was hauled there to be sold. It had changed hands a couple times, with the most recent owner having died at a rather young age. I don't recall the details now, but the engine was fired up and several cars attached, perhaps a dozen. It was then driven around the loop that was around the main building. It was so slippery it got stuck, literally on flat ground. It was reputed to have had the suspension altered, likely loading the pilot and trailing truck too heavily. At any rate, Lee hauled the entire train back to the steaming bay with his Pacific. It had a wonderful bark, and had no trouble at all moving them.

I'd driven it on a couple occasions, and had seen it perform countless times. It's a great little engine, I agree.

Harold


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