Once again.... Someone in need of Sight Glass Help.

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:15 pm

Hey Group,

Well I did discover an interesting little thing about my new aquired 3/4" pacific this past new years day. The sight glass is about 2/3 full when the water is at the crown sheet! Never mind the bottom nut.... Keep the water at the top nut!!! Well that is a bit crappy as one might imagine so I need a suggestion to fix this problem. I would like to build a water column that I can then attach the original sight glass to for re-use. The lower connection is just fine but the upper boiler tap is still a bit low for me. And I am assuming, "Dumb Question here", The upper connection to the water colum must be at the top and not just some point close to the top? So My proposal in to go to the turret.......

OH MY GOD!!! Not the Turret.....

Yeah I know this is not kosher but the only thing that is on my turret is a whistle tap and a steam brake tap that will be removed.... You may ask, "Boy it sure seems like that loco is missing some stuff?????" Well not really. It has a super slick axle pump for the main water feed and a hand pump as a back up. I don't see a real need to fuss around with other fiddley bits as they are not mandatory for smooth operation. Like all good little propane burners out there, when there is a problem with the agua, just kill the fire and all is safe. The brakes are not a standard design and they really don't work that well to begin with. The riding car is the true place for brakes in 3/4" scale. So, this being said I would imagine the turret is an O.K. alternative for this situation?

Fire Away!!!

But seriously, Please let me know if there is something I'm missing... I am also trying to avoid drilling any additional holes into the boiler at this time if possible.

Thanks Much,

Robert Morris

10 Wheeler Rob · Post by **10 Wheeler Rob** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 2:42 pm

The reason that sight glasses are not conected to the turret is that when steam is being used form the turret there is pressure drop between the boiler and the turret, which would make the water glass read incorrectly high. An other reason is some locos have a valve between the boiler and the turret and if the valve is closed your out of luck also.

So if nothing is using steam form the turret then the glass could be connected there, i.e. turret becomes water glass piping.

But you will get a lot of "What the heck did you do coments"!

Rob

Bill Shields · Post by **Bill Shields** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 6:30 pm

The only thing about what you are proposing is not that YOU know what you are doing, but what your successor will / will not do...and ruin a good boiler / maybe hurt someone....

why don't you just tap the top of the boiler and run a separate line to the glass?

BTW, I agree on 3/4" loco brakes...never even bothered putting them on my Hudson...the linkage is there, but no actuator cylinder.

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:21 pm

Hey Bill,

Well I'm not really excited about doing that but I guess it would be O.K. the little thing has such a nice lagging job on it that I really didn't want to screw anything up. But after thinking about things for the day it might be the best option. The boiler shell is either 3/32" or 1/8" and I guess it's O.K. to tap into that with 3/16-40 or maybe even 1/4-40 MTP? if so then I might just go ahead with that plan. I would want to avoid soldering a new bushing into the boiler at all costs..... I think I could go into the top right along side where the turret connects to the top of the boiler. "Under the little box at the front of the cab." I hink I will chew on this tonight out in the back shop! Thanks for the comments!

Cheers,

Robert Morris

Bill Shields · Post by **Bill Shields** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:45 pm

DON'T thread the shell directly....BAD IDEA.....very firm on this belief....

Silver solder in a bronze bushing.

If your only alternative is ripping the lagging off at this time, then go with the turret but plan on doing it right at a later date....

Bill_Gardei · Post by **Bill_Gardei** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:52 pm

B&OBob · Post by **B&OBob** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 10:15 pm

Robert -
What are the I.D.s of your glass and connections? - too small anywhere will cause accuracy problems.

Bill G. - Lotsa luck.

Are you aware of a responsible club that permits operation with a setup like you plan?

An actual case on a published design with a blower line on the same connection as the water gauge steam return caused an unacceptable water level error; the design has since been modified.

Boiler water level is like Texas.
"Don't mess with Texas!"

Bob

B&OBob · Post by **B&OBob** » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:31 pm

Uh, oh. Now look what happened.

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 12:01 am

Hello Bob,

The current connections are 1/4-40 MTP directly " with bushings" into the back head of the copper boiler. I would like to stay with the same size if possible. The gauge glass has an O.D. of 5/16" but I can't quite remember what the I.D. is. Everything really worked slick but it just was a bit of a surprise when I felt inside the fire box and noticed the crown sheet relative to the damn glass..... Holly Sh..t.... This needs to be delt with!!!! And thats why we are here chewing thru these ideas and what not....

I should replace the jacket on the engine but I just worry about diging into the de-construction of what is a beautiful locomotive... Once the jacket comes off I can solder anything and everything into the boiler shell. It's just a bit of resistance right now to doing this surgery.

The deal with Bll Gardei's boiler is interesting. His construction on the locomotive is really nice and with very simple machines... A smithy 3-n-1 I beilieve? But the boiler is up for discussion. I'm not sure if it would fly with our club out here in California....

Best Regards,

Robert Morris

10 Wheeler Rob · Post by **10 Wheeler Rob** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 1:16 pm

Is it resonable to redu the sight glass piping to raise the sight glass but still use the same ports on the boiler?

I am asuming the top port you now have is above the operating water level of the boiler, and piping coms out and tees or elbows down into the sight glass, making the glass location to low. If the port is above the water line, then the steam (upper piping) to the sight glass could come out of back go and go up ward to the top of the sight glass. As long as this piping would not collect some kind of standing slug of water to change the reading. Or is this size model piping prone to traping slugs of water?

Hey a picture of your situatuion would be worth a lot words.

Rob

Bill Shields · Post by **Bill Shields** » Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:03 pm

Rob:

Yes and no to your answer.

You really should NOT have the top of the glass above the tap that feeds it. I have seen some strange water levels shown under those conditions as the boiler gets full....usually errors on the safe side...never seen / heard of a case where this design resulted in low water NOT being shown.

NOR should you EVER have the bottom of the glass BELOW the bottom boiler tap..you can quickly see where that would head....the glass becomes a P trap like the water trap in your sink....

Otherwise, it is tough to say without seeing a clear drawing / picture
(hint - hint).....

As for Bob's fair comment about club policies....recently I have run locos at two clubs that have NO BOILER INSPECTION AT ALL.

I won't name them, just state fact that while some clubs are very diligent about safety, others......

Were it me, and I didn't want to rip the loco apart, I would remove the whistle and any other devices and simply plug up the turret to make it ONLY a steam feed to the glass and leave it that way until a permanent fix could be made..no pressure bleeds, no possible argument about inaccurate levels.

Most clubs don't argue about lack of a whistle on the 3/4" track..heck NONE of the locos we run even HAVE whistles....long story...

Nobody would argue with that...strange as it may look it would be perfectly safe and there would be no way of 'accidentally' reporting water higher than actual.

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Sat Jan 05, 2008 10:52 am

Hey Guys,

After reviewing the possible options I can have an ultra clean solution by going right to where the old, now removed, brake supply line connected to the existing turret. I'm with you on the whistle as mine sounds a little sick when in use. However this and the pressure gauge are the only things that remain on the turret. Strange thing after reviewing all of the Kozo books last night... All of his engine have the same set-up, Glass, Gauge and toot toot connected to the turret.

Rob,

I thought about your suggestion but the top tap is just right at the high level of water.... I think it would have been too close for an accurate reading when the water is high. The other item is that the plumbing solution at that point would be a bit cobbled and not real clean.

I'll try to snap some pictures and post tomorrow....

Thanks Again Guys,

Robert Morris

The Home Machinist!