7 ¼ verses 7 ½ How did this happen?

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LivingLegend
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Post by LivingLegend » Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:54 pm

I know a way to settle the argument.... 7.25 vs. 7.5/7.5 vs. 7.25 gauge.

Toss both gauges for the CORRECT gauge of 7.0625. That way both sides can really complain about incompatabilty.

The "old timers" on both sides of the argument can then be P.O,'d and complain together..... Because they'll be in agreement for the first time. And the newcomers can build the new equipment to the new gauge standard so that everything 1.5" scale (56.5" prototype track gauge) is compatable on one track gauge and they all can go out and play trains together and sing "Kumbaya" and be happy.

Sarcasm off.

LL
Last edited by LivingLegend on Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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pockets
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Post by pockets » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:13 pm

Bill Fitt had a system of self guarding frogs that allowed the running of both gauges. I recently re-read the article in an old Modeltec. It's packed, now, or I could post which issue.

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Post by cp4449 » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:23 pm

CP4449....

re: Gordon driving his car to LALS.... Is Gordon still driving his little red open top MG to the track or another car?

EDITED.....

Oh yes, the 1950's MG shows up every Sunday. One time he was there, the MG was not. I asked why, and he told me that his mechanic was fixing a part on it, and was machining the new part, using the old one as a pattern. The original MG parts were not found, hence the new one being made.

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Dick_Morris
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Post by Dick_Morris » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:35 pm

There are a few prototypes that follow U.S. practice for which 7-1/2" is correct for an 1/8 scale locomotive. The railroad used when the U.S. constructed the Panama Canal and the Russian export version of the S-160 Consolidation were both 5 foot gauge. Much of the Panama equipment made its way to Alaska. Included were several Mogul locomotives and lots (over 1,000?) flat cars. Wider tires were used to regauge the locomotives and for the trucks the wheels were pressed closer onto the axles.

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Post by mattmason » Tue Jun 17, 2008 9:24 pm

"Could it be because of the attitude I ran into while I was in the service and stationed on Cape Cod? If it didn't happen on the cape or at least in Mass they wern't interested."

Much like people who say other scales are worthless, not worth a club's time, and should be removed? Hmmmmmm...........

The 7.25/2.5" gauge debate has been run over the decades, back to Dick Bagley's The Miniature Locomotive. Nothing will change and the only thing we have to blame are theories and stories -- many of them very interesting. It is what it is. At least that's my two cents.

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bcody
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SMALLER SCALES & GAUGES

Post by bcody » Tue Jun 17, 2008 10:17 pm

Matt: I think you and I can agree to disagree. You like the smaller gauges and I feel they are parasitic. They don't bring any money into the club and from what I've seen there arn't enough people interested in the smaller scales to even maintain their track. The LA club handles the smaller gauges the way they should be handled, their own track, separate from the 7.5" gauge track. I would assume if they don't maintain their own track it doesn't get maintained. I feel the smaller scale equipment should have their own separate track because for the most part they can't run at track speed for extended periods. Yes, I know there are some that will but most will not. Bill

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Re: 7 ¼ verses 7 ½ How did this happen?

Post by Curtis_F » Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:35 am

cbrew wrote: Now im just a code jockey
but maybe i need to go back to school. :shock: :wink:
Chris,

Sorry man but I can't seem to follow your argument. :(

I'm say'n that if you want to built 2.5" scale equipment and run on track built around IBLS "standards" then 7.25" gauge is the better choice for having to make fewer compromises.

Your retorting with the statement that if you built it to scale, including scale flanges & back-to-back (ie. non-IBLS), then 7.5" gauge is the better choice. And you are quite right. But that doesn't go against my statement, it supports it.

Your math is quite correct, yet so is mine.

My apologies if I'm not being clear.

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Re: GAUGE SELECTION

Post by Curtis_F » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:00 am

bcody wrote:If I were trying to run 15" gauge I would never be able to put them in a 14' trailer.
True, most guys I know who move 15" gauge equipment use 16' trailers. Though there is Chris Allan who hauls his 0-4-0 engine around in the bed (long bed) of his pickup. And a I know of some 5" scale shays that can be hauled around on a 10' trailer.

15" gauge is not for the hobbyist, such as yourself. Just ask John Ray of the Coyote Valley Ry. He started in 15" and switched to 7.5", and has been having more fun ever since.

I know guys who built small 15" and even 12" gauge engines thinking they'd be small enough to transport, and they are! Yet these engines still mostly stay on their home tracks and take a trip maybe once every couple of years. Just the nature of the beast.

But when it comes to hauling the public for profit, then 15" really is the "minimum gauge" Sir Heywood did his research and it still holds true today. I don't know a single for-profit entity running 12" gauge that doesn't say they'd like to go to at least 15" for higher hauling capacity.

Yes, you can haul people successfully on smaller gauges (Burnaby Live Steamers), but if profit is your end goal then bigger-is-better.


$0.02

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Re: GAUGE SELECTION

Post by Harlock » Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:56 am

Curtis_F wrote: 15" gauge is not for the hobbyist, such as yourself. Just ask John Ray of the Coyote Valley Ry. He started in 15" and switched to 7.5", and has been having more fun ever since.
My father lives near John and we went up to visit him last year, and he attested to the fact that it takes at least three guys to lay 15" gauge track, while 7.5" gauge you can do it by yourself easily. He had some 15" gauge cars left over and boy it is big stuff...not good for a home railroad unless you have help, paid or otherwise. His 7.5" track will be lovely when it is done - great views of the valley from the horse paddock loop.
Curtis_F wrote: But when it comes to hauling the public for profit, then 15" really is the "minimum gauge" Sir Heywood did his research and it still holds true today. I don't know a single for-profit entity running 12" gauge that doesn't say they'd like to go to at least 15" for higher hauling capacity.
Those are good points. It's interesting that Roll Models is big on 12" gauge, and they sell to some commercial operations, although their big example of that is steam outline running in a mall indoors during christmas time. Seems like it might benefit Roll Models to design a frame and running gear for 15", at which they'd be on the small end of for once...
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Curtis_F
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Re: GAUGE SELECTION

Post by Curtis_F » Wed Jun 18, 2008 3:20 am

Harlock wrote:It's interesting that Roll Models is big on 12" gauge, and they sell to some commercial operations, although their big example of that is steam outline running in a mall indoors during christmas time. Seems like it might benefit Roll Models to design a frame and running gear for 15", at which they'd be on the small end of for once...
RMI has and will build in 15" gauge. And they will do it for the tightest of budgets.

But you pay for a Yugo, you get a Yugo.

And for malls where you don't have good ventilation and very tight clearances and penny-pinchers by the dozen, battery operated 12" gauge sheet metal equipment painted nicely running on temporary track installations seems to work very well.

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10 Wheeler Rob
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Re: Standard Gage

Post by 10 Wheeler Rob » Wed Jun 18, 2008 7:40 am

Bill, Please accept my applogies if I offended you, this was not my intent.

I was jsut tring to illustrate the point that us Americans tend to very often in industry due our own thing and then try to dictate it as the world standard. This worked in many products if we were the inovotors and the rest of the world were the copiers.

But my real point is it's not the track, but the equipment that keeps the north east form regaging. You should of seen my surprise when I rolled out the Allen 10 Wheeler prints for the first time and saw dual dimensions all over the frame for building to the two differnt gages. I was not expecting that at all.

I did not realize the rest of the world uses a differnt BB width then 6.88" of the IBLS.

From what I have read, gage standards was an issue for at least the first 100 years of real gage trains, so in some ways I guess this just a true to proto typicale extension of rail roading inot the scale era.

Rob

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bcody
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EQUIPMENT COMPATIBILITY

Post by bcody » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:29 am

And I was not trying to throw rocks. I was just trying to open doors where you and I would have the capability of running 1.5"+ scales anywhere in this country and maybe even Canada. Bill

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