Concrete Crossties

[LivingLegend]

Here's an "off the track" question.....

Anyone out there used, or experimented with crossties cast of concrete in place of those of wood or plastic in their track panel construction?

Any clubs, or individuals, out there with their own tracks concidered the use of crossties cast of concrete as an option to wood or plastic crossties?

What method is/would be used to "screw" (or attach) the rails in place onto the concrete ties?

LL

[ccvstmr]

LL,
At the Illinois Live Steamers, the 4.75" track uses concrete at 12" intervals. But that's more to give the track some weight and help hold it in the ground.

I've seen concrete ties elsewhere too...but it's too soon to know anything about longevity. Check out either the Indiana Live Steamers website or Pete Pedigo's New Unionville and Western site. Pete came up with the idea. I know there's a test section of track at the IN club site.

Perhaps the question to ask is...what problem are you trying to solve or resolve by going to concrete? There are ways to extend the life of wood ties...between treatments, track installment methods and ballast selection. Carl B.

[boaterri]

Hello LL:

This link will provide good reading about concrete ties.

http://www.newrr.com/ConcreteTies/

Good luck,

Rick

[LivingLegend]

...what problem are you trying to solve or resolve by going to concrete? There are ways to extend the life of wood ties...between treatments, track installment methods and ballast selection.

Not trying to solve a problem. Just looking into some of the newer methods of doing the traditional.... But with a motive. To do a little pre-planning for when I do start building a track out on the property.

Since I will be turning 57 this year, I'm not worrying about my track outliving me.... As would be the case in a Live Steam club track.

There's plenty of hardwood trees along with the pines here in "my neck of the woods." And I can buy direct from the sawmills in the area. Plus, there's the added expense of treatment of the wood ties. Something that is unneccessary with plastic ties. Plastic is an option, but definately more expensive that wood.

Still, I'm looking out for the long run when it comes to maintainance once (if/whenever) a track gets built. It looks like I will be it when it comes to the building and to the upkeep. The more longevity from the materials used in construction the better.

Ain't nobody in my area who's into steam locos.... Let alone the live steam hobby. So that means no one to help me out on a track building project. Or with the long term mainainance required of it.

Right now, I'm focusing on getting a shop building put up first.... So I can get back to building something after almost 20-years.

EDITED..... 04/06/2009 @1419 hrs CDT

LL

[Harlock]

Concrete's interesting, I wonder if small masonry screws would work, with tie plates to minimize the stress on the bolt. Wonder if the whole thing would be too brittle. Or maybe you can cast in some kind of bracket/plate when you're pouring the ties.

We just pulled up our local club's track having lost use of the property. The wood ties were very dilapidated / rotted / cracked etc., even using them with ballast (which eventually got infiltrated with dirt and mud) and the few plastic ones were as good as the day they were put in the ground. More expensive up front, but you only have to put em in once.

Would be nice if they were a medium flat brown rather than grey though

Seems most people who are adverse to unnecessary maintenance are going with steel rails and plastic ties for maximum longevity. As a friend building his own track said, "I'd rather spend time maintaining engines and cars, not track...."

[LivingLegend]

......"I'd rather spend time maintaining engines and cars, not track...."

There ya go! Exactly what have in mind.

BTW, Mike, I looked at the NEWRR's concrete crosstie page Rick posted the link to above..... Take a look at it. It shows the making of the ties. From first steps to the last.... Including the track panel assembly and installation. Interesting!

Concrete's interesting, I wonder if small masonry screws would work, with tie plates to minimize the stress on the bolt. Wonder if the whole thing would be too brittle. Or maybe you can cast in some kind of bracket/plate when you're pouring the ties.

I found out on the NEWRR website, that they use plastic inserts set into the concrete when they cast the ties. I had given thought to doing the same. Glad to find out that someone else has already "been there/done that" and proven it's concept.

Regarding plastic material for crossties.... It is available in colors other that gray..... Black, brown, etc. I think some manifacturers do charge more of certain colors, though.

And concrete can be tinted while mixing. So the crossties can be colored to a brown, creosote, color.

When (IF?????) the time comes, I will be going with steel rail.


LL

[Curtis_F]

And concrete can be tinted while mixing. So the crossties can be colored to a brown, creosote, color.

And if one was masochistic enough they could put a texture on the bottom of the concrete forms to give them a "wood grain" look.


I must agree that the NEWRR site is well worth a read. They documented their process very well and why they do it the way they do.


Cheers,

Curtis F.

[mattmason]

I do not have access to the magazine's computer right now, but I have a few pics on a concrete ties system we test installed at SVLS and was used at Ron Danley's place in Willows. The screws were cast in, and each casting incorporated three ties. Very heavy, but once set stay in place.

I used the 1" bender board found in the garden section of The Orange Box (better known as Home Depot). They make great ties, are not composite, and are brown in color. We have also used that at Ken's place in Gardnerville, Nevada.

Matt Mason
Editor
The Home Railway Journal
www.homerailwayjournal.com

[STRR]

You should check out this web site: http://www.trainweb.org/riverview/

You will need to go to the track construction portion. This guy had some ideas that work well for him. Fabricates his own rail (8lb), ties, and tie plates. Brags about track cost $2.75 per foot for ALL materials. I believe that was a 2002 price.

Some good ideas though.

Good Luck,
Terry

[LivingLegend]

This link will provide good reading about concrete ties......

Rick:

Forgot to thank you for the link.... Thanks!

Thanks to Carl and everyone else for their info as well.

LL

[Kevin_S]

I will add on to Matt's about Rod Danley's conrete ties. There was a place down the way from his place, that poured the ties for him at almost no cost. The place made concrete tubes there was a little left over from each batchthat rod ha them poured into the molds he had made. Like Matt said the screws were cast in, they were held in place in the mold witha rubber bushing. Rod also had a couple of molds for switches. Also the nice thing about Rod's ties is that they semi interlock between them. One end of the tie section was raised to fit over lower part of the prevous section.
-Kevin S.

[Bruce_Mowbray]

Would be nice if they were a medium flat brown rather than grey though

Seems most people who are adverse to unnecessary maintenance are going with steel rails and plastic ties for maximum longevity. As a friend building his own track said, "I'd rather spend time maintaining engines and cars, not track...."

When I purchased my plastic tie material, I bought brown "factory seconds". They were unevenly brown in color. This is not desirable for most homeowners, unless they are building a live steam track. Because of that, the price is considerably lower as well. I too would rather play with locos and cars. Not track. I did enough of that when I was a kid at my local club track.