mechanical lubricator

Bill_Gardei · Post by **Bill_Gardei** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 2:49 pm

Friends:

It's hard to believe that such a small item could keep me from completing my project, but so far, it is.

After a number of attempts to come up with a mechanical lubricator for my 90 ton Mikado, I am now back to square one. The requirements are
1. it must be able to supply oil against the working steam pressure (125 psi).
2. it must deliver consistant but very small amounts of oil equally to both cylinders at any speed.

Has anyone found a good solution?

Thanks

Bill

dampfspieler · Post by **dampfspieler** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:05 pm

Hi Bill,

what a lubricator have you used and how you have found that it doesn't work well?

I use successful parts from STEAM FITTINGS, here you can find it http://tinyurl.com/n8yn37

Best Dietrich

sncf141r · Post by **sncf141r** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:09 pm

Bill;

I understand your frustration... What I'm doing on my 3-1/2" gauge Shay is to use a pseudo-hydrostatic lubricating system; somewhere I have plans for it; the reason for going this route was that 1) people say it works; 2) my experience with mechanical lubricators is that they are a bit of a soreness in a certain extremity.

My 3-1/2" gauge tich has a mechanical lubricator, but it no longer pumps anything. The engine is NOT superheated; has O rings, and bronze cylinders. Water is an ok lubricant.

The 3-1/2" gauge Raritan uses "passive" lubrication - put a drop or two of oil in plugs in the cylinder valve chests every once in a while. Incredibly simple.

Not the answer you were looking for, I'm afraid.

JohnS. Ottawa.

alanstepney · Post by **alanstepney** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:09 pm

What precisely is the problem.
Mechanical lubricators are fairly standard, with the odd difference in the drive etc.

Over here, we have the LBSC type, Martin Evans one, and Jim Ewins one as the three main examples.
All work, deliver oil, and are reliable.

Feeding two (or more) cylinders with one supply can result on one getting all the oil and the other, none.
Using two pumps, each feeding its own cylinder is the best (?) way round that. In fact, Martin Evans did a standard oil pump that did exactly that.

I have built several LBSC ones, a few Evans type, but none to Jim Ewins design.
However, now I tend to go for a displacement lubricator, which is another, and perhaps better, alternative.

Post by **cbrew** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:10 pm

Bill.
its good to hear you are working on your Mikado.
why not consider one from locoparts, http://locoparts.biz/parts.html#Lubricator

Thanks again
Chris

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:25 pm

I have a mechanical lubricator on my BIG engine and I'm not really sure who made it.... But it's nice and works better than I sometimes want! Plenty of oil!!!

My 3/4" Pacific has a hydrostatic unit that looks like an air tank up in the front of the engine and I gotta say that I'll take it any day over the mechanical version..... It seems to work so well and consistent that I will probably got this route on the next machine.

Tank w/ drain on bottom to release condensed water.
Needle valve on top that connects into the steam line enroute to the steam chests
Cap that can be removed to fill when empty...
Done

I see from your web page that your did try a off the shelf unit and that it seized up on you in the past? That is surprising but I can see it happening.... I know that the Loco Parts units are great as well as the one from American Model Engineering supply in Florida? Maybe go that route???

Cheers,

Robert M.

Bill_Gardei · Post by **Bill_Gardei** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:37 pm

Sirs:

My first attempt was with the Locoparts model, WIthin a short period of
time it seized up (the shaft wouldn't turn any more) and I had to remove
and disassemble it to free it up, Never did find out why it had seized.

How can you tell if they are working? SImple. Look and see if you have any
oil at the cylinder drains. With the Locoparts model I had lots of oil on the
left side ad NO oil on the right. (It's a double bore model, so both sides
are independent).

Even more disheartening was the fact that when I would open the throttle
I could hear steam (air) bubbling up through the oil reservoir, indicating
one of the check valves was misbehaving.

My more recent attempt was with one of my own design - which has it's
own little subset of issues and quirks to where I'm ready to give up on it
as well.

Thanks

Bill

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 3:58 pm

Hmmm..... Bummer deal on the Locoparts model. Don is on here regularly so I'm sure he will make right with you!

They can be a finicky beast for sure... I would bet money that mine was lazy on one side the first time I ran it but it somehow found the Almighty and now pumps oil like something I cant describe!

I have had experience with the AME version and have also heard nothing but good about the ones from OS models???

Or the Hydro-Stat way???

Good Luck! Your engine is very nice and it will be great to see it running around the track! Have you steamed up with that Alcohol burner yet?

Cheers,

Robert M.

nickco201 · Post by **nickco201** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:10 pm

Try one of these.
http://www.americanmodeleng.com/id16.html

I have no personal experience with it, but a good friend has one on his pacific and really likes it. Works much better than the slip clutch unit he had previously.

SteamHeaton · Post by **SteamHeaton** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:28 pm

Bill , I have had good results from a locoparts double ram short body mech lubricator, on my 1.5 raritan. It has served me well for over 6 years now. I did take Don's advice and install 2 of his check valves. One on top of each D valve. I also installed one of the AME double ram lubricators on my 1.6 mikado. The mike has only ran 3 times but the AME lubricator seems to work great almost too well. Ray III

Post by **cbrew** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:33 pm

Hi Bill.
have you called Don and discussed the issues with him?
I have found him to be very reasonable.

Even more disheartening was the fact that when I would open the throttle
I could hear steam (air) bubbling up through the oil reservoir, indicating
one of the check valves was misbehaving.

At first, I did not use any extra check valves until I had reverse flow one run day, since then I have installed a clippard check valve in each of the oil lines and never had the problem again.
The only problem I have if any is over oiling.

How can you tell if they are working?

I see oil residue on my cylinder drains, I also disconnect the oil line if the engine has been sitting for a while and roll the engine back and forth to make sure I am getting oil out the end of the lines.

With the Locoparts model I had lots of oil on the
left side ad NO oil on the right. (It's a double bore model, so both sides
are independent).

I had this happen once, I believe cause by running the unit dry and getting an air bubble in the pump.

Like anything on these engines, the mechanical lubricators do require maintenance.

Now I have designed a displacement lubricator that will use a sight glass and needle valve pre feed, but have never built it.
I also believe the hot oil lubricates better. Just have not had the time to make it happen.
Chris

rwmorris · Post by **rwmorris** » Wed Jul 08, 2009 4:59 pm

I received a whole series of little booklets from some technical program back in the day for Steam Engines and one of them covers lubricators. The hydrostatic style that were up in the cab on the real deal.... Well anyways they have all these cut away drawings and explanation of the units and they really are fascinating! The coolest version was a 3 hole unit that had a little 3 way diverter valve in the base. All_Off/Air_Pump/All_ON! How slick! Sitting in the station the guy flips the valve to the center and the westinghouse ticks away. Getting ready for the two toots he flips it over to All_On and now the steam chests get it as well..... I would love to build one of these but I feel that to scale would be a bugger....

The little books are really fun to read.... Valve gear, boilers everything....

Cheers,

Robert M.