Draw! bar, that is...

[tburzio]

Has anyone had or know of a time when a steamer's draw bar failed and the engineer had problems controlling the separated power? Did the bolt just come loose, or did the bar itself break? Do you have an alternate fastening device on your engine, such as a chain, used in addition to the draw bar as a backup?

[Postwarbob]

I do believe this happened to 4449 back during the freedom train??? I personally had a failure on one of our club diesels. The bolt fell out under the motor that held the engine draw bar to the chassis. Not a good feeling. Thank god for the chain.

[Harlock]

I do believe this happened to 4449 back during the freedom train??? I personally had a failure on one of our club diesels. The bolt fell out under the motor that held the engine draw bar to the chassis. Not a good feeling. Thank god for the chain.

Bolts that go in from the bottom tend to do that. If there's a nut involved on the top, a nylon lock nut should be used.

On the Tom Bee trucks on my riding tender they bolt from the bottom into a threaded hole on the bolster bearing plate. They will need to be checked each morning on the steam bay as part of the procedures.

I don't want to loc-tite them in as there are situations in which I actually want to take the trucks off and I don't feel like using a torch on the painted metal to loosen it.

Chains won't hurt on a link and pin setup. Just one more layer of protection when the "that's impossible!" thing actually happens due to unforseen metal fatigue or what-have-you.

-M

[LivingLegend]

I do believe this happened to 4449 back during the freedom train???....

Actually, the drawbar indecent took place a few years after the Freedom Train. 4449 was en-route home to Portland from it's stay in New Orleans at the 1984 Worlds Fair.

The keeper/retainer came loose that held 4449's tender's drawbar pin in place, thus allowing the pin to drop out and the engine and tender to separate.

Happened out in the desert.... I forget exactly where.

LL

[Harlock]

I do believe this happened to 4449 back during the freedom train???....

Actually, the drawbar indecent took place a few years after the Freedom Train. 4449 was en-route home to Portland from it's stay in New Orleans at the 1984 Worlds Fair.

The keeper/retainer came loose that held 4449's tender's drawbar pin in place, thus allowing the pin to drop out and the engine and tender to separate.

Happened out in the desert.... I forget exactly where.

LL

That must have been scary as all getout. Did the brakes apply all around and stop everything fairly evenly, or did the tender get away from the engine a little or smack into it...

Imagine riding in a big, roomy cab like that, and suddenly it gets a lot brighter...

[Mike Walsh]

From what I'm told, when the loco/tender separated, the engineer went 'all out' on the throttle, as he had to outrun the train that had plenty of momentum behind him until the brakes on the train could take hold. I believe the engine brakes are separate from the train brakes, thus the engine's brakes didn't apply.

Mike

[LivingLegend]

....Did the brakes apply all around and stop everything fairly evenly, or did the tender get away from the engine a little or smack into it....

When the engine broke away from the tender and the train air brake line was broken, the tender/train went into emergency. With the weight of the train no longer connected, the engine did a rapid acceleration maneuver on it's own. The loco stopped a good ways ahead of the train.

The engine brakes are separate....

Fortunately, since 4449 has a vestibule cab (the back of the cab isn't open), none of the crew was exposed, or out in the open on the engine/tender apron when the separation took place..

EDITED.... TO CLARIFY

LL

[Harlock]

Interesting situation. If the tender was part of the engine brake system rather than the train brake system, then the engine and tender would go into emergency....and the engine would stop faster, probably bashing into the tender, as the tender is pushed along by the rest of the train. So yea, that's no good. And interlocking the tender with BOTH brake systems, creating a bridge between the two would defeat the point of keeping them separate.

[Trainman4602]

On the Westinghouse Air Brake system for trains there is what’s called a distribution valve. This is like a triple valve except it controls the train and the engine. When a brake pipe (train line) reduction is made beyond a certain set amount the engine brakes apply. This prevents the train from bunching up against the tender. The engineer has the option to “bail off” the locomotive keeping the train stretched out.

If the air line between the locomotive and tender are severed you no longer have control of the brakes the train not the tender goes into emergency. The engineer would have to use the independent (straight air) to stop the locomotive. I’m not sure if the locomotive would stop with brakes. This is due to the severance of the straight air line to the tender. The straight air application would have an open pipe causing a loss of pressure.

[Postwarbob]

Hense safety chains guys. One will do. It is required!!!!

[tburzio]

It is required!!!!

Most clubs require a safety chain OR a draw bar, not both (haven't yet found a club where both are required). The original question was whether anyone has had a scale draw bar fail on their live steamer. The real locomotive at Sacramento that I inspected, and 1870s Baldwin Mogul much like my own, had a draw bar and 2 chains. Not surprising given the technology and metallurgy of the day. If the bolt in my engine's draw bar was scaled up, you could pull the Titanic out to sea with it. It also controls the engine pretty well when it derails, holding it level with the tender. So, anyone ever have a problem on a scale steamer?

[ccvstmr]

On the Tom Bee trucks on my riding tender they bolt from the bottom into a threaded hole on the bolster bearing plate. They will need to be checked each morning on the steam bay as part of the procedures.

I don't want to loc-tite them in as there are situations in which I actually want to take the trucks off and I don't feel like using a torch on the painted metal to loosen it.
-M

Mike,

While I like Tom Bee trucks, I never did like the "bolt up from the bottom" stripper bolt approach to hold the truck in place. I've found too many stripper bolts between the rails on various railroads...glad they didn't belong to me (those aren't cheap either!). To get around that shortcoming, I usually install a 3/8" or larger hex head bolt (long shank) aka...a king pin. The car center sill is drilled and tapped for the bolt thread. The bolt inserted and nutted on the opposite side of the center sill to lock the bolt in place. Once the body bolster height is determined for proper coupler height, the king pin is cut slightly longer than the underside of the truck bolster. A 9/64" hole is drilled crosswise thru the king pin for a hitch pin. The cut end is filed to remove burrs and provide a slight taper. A fender washer is used to keep the hitch pin from getting stuck "inside" the truck bolster. Truck maintenance is a snap...pull the pin, catch the fender washer, lift the car, roll out the truck (disconnect the air brake line if so equipped) and set the car on blocks or other.

Can't count the number of cars I've used this design on. Don't have to worry about dropping mounting hardware on the track. Don't need a tool to remove trucks. Don't have to use a thread locking compound. Don't have to worry about breaking the end of the stripper bolt off in the center sill. When I lift the car...the trucks stay captive. Simple, easy, functional! Carl B.