Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

This forum is dedicated to the Live Steam Hobbyist Community.

Moderators: Harold_V, WJH, cbrew

Post Reply
User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Pipescs » Sun Nov 07, 2010 8:54 pm

This is a plea for help. :?:

Having looked over the forums, this appears to be the place to put this.

I am looking to start a discussion with anyone that has built, is building or researching the ALCO PS-4 Pacifics used by the Southern Railroad. This includes anyone that has photos of the engine, scratch built or kit bashed anyone elses design.

If you are out there please jump in.

I am looking at this as a project to take me into my retirement years. The idea being to get all the parts bought and my shop up to speed prior to retiring and going onto a fixed income.

Efforts to date:

I have started a preliminary set of drawings in AutoCAD 2002 using the book of plans by William C. Fitt, printed in 1973 by Wildwood Publications. The book of drawings while not complete are measured. I am primaily working on the frame sides. I will post them as I go.

I have resently visited the Smithsonian Institute to photograph the PS-4 number 1401 that is on display there. I am in the process of asking for permision (A long process that requires you make your request in writing) to go behind the fence to photograph the left side of the engine. (I will post some of the photos I managed to take so far later)

My initial research has lead me to some available castings from Roger Goldman of Live Steam Locomotives. His cylinder set along with his Baker Valve gear are a dead on fit for a 1.6 inch to the foot scale. Needless to say the use of these castings go a long way on giving me motivation to attempt this.

I have ordered and received the set of casting for the Baker Valve Gear. The Cylinders are next.

http://www.livesteamlocomotives.com/id10.html
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Number 1401

Post by Pipescs » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:06 pm

This is the 1401 displayed at the National History Museum in Washington DC. It is reported to be the only survivor of the PS-4s.
DSC_0135.jpg
DSC_0175.jpg
DSC_0074.jpg

I am having to shrink these down for the forum. They show better detail full scale.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Pipescs » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:09 pm

Friday I put in a request to the Smithsonian Library to see if a set of drawings came with the engine when it was donated in 1952.

Areas the book by Mr. Fitt do not cover are the braking system, and cross frame details.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
FLtenwheeler
Posts: 1359
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 8:47 am
Location: Florida, on the Lake Wales Ridge

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by FLtenwheeler » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:18 pm

The Ridge Live Steamers has a PS4 that comes by often. Take a look in the picture section.

http://www.ridgeclub.org/index.htm

Tim
He who dies with the most unfinished projects: Should of put more time into their hobby.

User avatar
FredR
Posts: 1638
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2003 10:49 am
Location: Cedar Park, Texas, USA

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by FredR » Sun Nov 07, 2010 11:00 pm

I am envious. Good luck. Keep us updated.
Fred

User avatar
Trainman4602
Posts: 3434
Joined: Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:26 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Trainman4602 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:24 am

First

I wish you luck with your project. I have designed and built from scratch several locomotives and it is not easy.

I would suggest that you use as many parts that you can find that already exist. This will lessen the build time.

Second Why are you using Baker Valve gear? The Ps4 in the museum uses Walschaert gear?

Some Ps4 Pictures This Locomotive was built by Bob Petersen
Attachments
Ps4 2.jpg
Ps4 1.jpg
Ps4 3.jpg
Ps4 4.jpg
ALLWAYS OPERATING MY TRAIN IN A SAFE MANNER USING AUTOMATIC AIR BRAKES

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Pipescs » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:27 am

As I started the design process I looked at what castings were available that would support the 7.5 gauge.

The Cylinders and valve gear from Live Steam looked to be a close fit and have actually been closer than I could have hoped

The Baker Valve gear from Roger Goldmann
DSC_0060.jpg
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Pipescs » Mon Nov 08, 2010 12:33 am

Thanks for the quick reply and photos.

Fitts book showson the spec sheet that all the early engines were built by ALCO and came with the Baker Gear. 1401 was refit later (as were a lot of the Baker valve engines).

As you say I am looking to use castings and Items that are still available. I am buying them now prior to retirement

This is a low quality drawing from Fitt's book of the PS-4 with baker gear.
Baker Valve Gear.jpg
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

Ghettofab75
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 1:45 pm
Location: Atascadero, Ca

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Ghettofab75 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:19 pm

Pipescs wrote: Fitts book showson the spec sheet that all the early engines were built by ALCO and came with the Baker Gear. 1401 was refit later (as were a lot of the Baker valve engines).
So they replaced the baker with walschaerts, hmmm..... I allways thought baker was a step above walschaerts as it had no sliding parts?

Kevo

nickco201
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun May 14, 2006 2:31 pm

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by nickco201 » Mon Nov 08, 2010 5:19 pm

All the Ps4s were built with baker valve gear except the 1928 baldwin batch. This batch also was different in that it had 4 axle tender trucks under the 14K tender and the 1409 had a coffin feed water heater. Generally from photos you can see that by the 1940s most had been converted to walscheart. Here is a as built 1926 Ps-4 ( http://www.shorpy.com/Crescent-Limited?size=_original ). During this time it the running boards were raised to how the 1401 is now, some got over fire jets, and some had the coal bunkers built up. Almost any picture you see from late era southern steam shows that most of the mountains, mikados, and pacifics had been converted to walscheart if not originally built with it and converted to laird style multiple bearing cross heads. It is interesting that the 2-8-8-2s kept the baker valve gear but got the laird cross heads and the 2-10-2s kept Southern valve gear. This is off of memory, so correct me if I am wrong.

Here is a good link that has many Ps-4 photos. http://southern.railfan.net/images/arch ... 2/462.html
As far as a model I believe there are multiple sets of castings out there. I do not know how many are still available.
There was a tech trainer model, the East Coast loco works model. I believe mammoth loco works at one time had castings for it. There was a set a while back for sale on chaski of 1.6 inch scale castings for one. There may be others as well.

User avatar
Pipescs
Posts: 1857
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:16 pm
Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by Pipescs » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:03 pm

I am currently building the LE American and I try to get time in the shop with I can.


The design work on the PS-4 is a project I can work on my laptop while on travel or in the late evenings when I can't make too much noise down in the basement.

On the subject of modified valve gear. I also noticed the date on the Builders Plate as 1926 and that the cylinder casting was dated 1944.
DSC_0117.jpg
Question for the day??

Recently I stumbled on a set of Hodges Trailing Truck Castings that were sold prior to my call. Does anyone have information on where a set can be located?
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

User avatar
gwrdriver
Posts: 3058
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 10:31 am
Location: Nashville Tennessee

Re: Southern Railroad PS-4 Pacific Design Discussion

Post by gwrdriver » Mon Nov 08, 2010 8:15 pm

Pipescs wrote:This is a low quality drawing from Fitt's book of the PS-4 with baker gear.
I'm curious as to what makes this a "low quality" drawing.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Post Reply