Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

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applejak_2000
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Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by applejak_2000 » Sat Jul 16, 2011 2:52 am

Hello,
I'm building a 1.6" scale Climax and the prints for the cylinder drain cocks specify a 5/16-27 pipe tap and the die also. The same prints also show a 1/4-18 which is clearly smaller. I can't seem to find 5/16-27 size anywhere-- companies seem to sell just the 1/8-27 and the 1/4-18. Not to mention the print calls them MPT rather than NPT. Odd!? I have a whole boxed set of Union Butterfield NPT taps and dies ranging from 1/8-27 through 1-11.5 and the 5/16 isn't in the set! Where do I get this size tap and die?? Thanks, John

super7b
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by super7b » Sat Jul 16, 2011 3:28 am

If you haven't got a tap or die combination that is specified on a drawing, why not substitute a size that you do have. A ¼" of a suitable thread would do just as well, unless you a buying ready made cocks that are 5/16" x 27.
I believe that the thread is called MTP, Model Taper Pipe and over here you can buy a set of tap and dies with all sorts of weird (to me at least) thread pitches for around $400!

http://www.tap-die.com/contents/en-uk/d ... l_Box.html

It is about using what you have, not buying something that will probably only be used once!

Lawrence

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shayloco
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by shayloco » Sat Jul 16, 2011 5:41 am

John-

5/16-27 MPT is the same as 1/16 NPT pipe thread. MSC, McMaster-Carr and many others carry 1/16-27 NPT taps/dies.

Are you building a Bob Reedy Climax?

-Larry

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SZuiderveen
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by SZuiderveen » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:28 am

I got mine here:

http://www.pmresearchinc.com/store/prod ... 304&page=1

It was a lot cheaper than Mc Master.

Steve

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Orrin
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by Orrin » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:32 pm

American Model Engineering Supply in Florida can fix you up with what you need; and, they are fast. I recently ordered a pipe tap and die from them early in the week and it was in my mailbox on Friday. (I live in Washington State)

http://americanmodeleng.com/

They carry a complete line of miniature pipe taps and dies; however, they don't stock fittings. You can get the fittings you need from Coles Power Models in Texas or P.M. Research. Coles also has the taps and dies you need; but, I've found American in Florida is consistently faster in shipping.

http://www.colespowermodels.com/index.html

I feel like a traitor to Coles to rate their competition's service higher than theirs; but, they have e-mail and it would help if they would at least keep a person apprised of the status of their order. When an order doesn't arrive in three weeks and a person doesn't hear a word, it leaves them guessing: Is it going to arrive tomorrow, in six months, or never?

PM Research also has taps and dies; but, they have a proprietary grind on some of them that is an attempt to accommodate two different thread styles.

Orrin
So many projects, so little time.

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applejak_2000
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by applejak_2000 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 7:46 pm

Orrin
I bought the 1/16 NPT (Note: thanks Larry shayloco for pointing out it's the same as 5/16-27 MPT) from MSC. I bought a 1/4-40 MPT tap and die and a few taps and dies I don't have like 5-40 from American Model Engineering -- it appears the dies are HSS not carbon, to boot!

I like Coles' very much but I noticed too, when I wrote them a few months ago about a few small items that I might be interested in, they never wrote back. I was gonna call them on the phone and ask what happened. I just guessed "Well, I suppose the owners are elderly and it's probably difficult to conduct business they way that they used to." I thought that because some publishers like "Strictly IC" and Guy Lautard can be a little like that, if your are familiar with these very fine resources. And those two are getting up in years (God Bless Them!) You have to remind them a time or two, occasionally about your order. I very new to this hobby so it will take a while to get feel for all these different outfits.

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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die (coles)

Post by Pennsy fan » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:37 pm

I do a bit of buying from coles, they have always come thought for me. And Large orders at that. They are a small shop so things do take time to get sometimes. They did have an ex employee cause some problems not to long ago.
D.

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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by Greg_Lewis » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Something else to think about is that the 5/16-27 is a rather coarse thread. There is a 5/16-40 MTP thread now available from both AMES and Coles that might be a better choice. And you could also go with a straight 40 tpi thread. Special thread taps in hundreds of sizes are available from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
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Our motto: "That looks about right."
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by Harold_V » Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:54 pm

applejak_2000 wrote:"Well, I suppose the owners are elderly and it's probably difficult to conduct business they way that they used to." I thought that because some publishers like "Strictly IC" and Guy Lautard can be a little like that
You likely know that the publisher of Strictly IC is no longer with us, having died a few years ago.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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applejak_2000
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by applejak_2000 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:43 pm

shayloco wrote:John-
...Are you building a Bob Reedy Climax?
-Larry
Indeed I am. And I'll be posting quite a few questions to this forum from time to time, I am brand new to this hobby. BUT---I read a lot, here's my library so far:
Live Steam magazine issues July 2001- Dec 2004 "Three Truck Climax" series by Bob Reedy (BTW --These prints have become a religion !) I study these prints every single day! And I probably can't start building up the shop and start machining until after Thankgiving. And by golly I intend to study them every day until then and beyond! It's very exciting !
Building the Climax - Kozo Hiraoka (I read this religiously also)
Building the New Shay - Kozo Hiraoka (this was my very first purchase for the library!
So You Want to Build A Live Steam Locomotive - Joe Nelson (I bought Mr. I. Douglas "Doug" Alkire's personal copy [co-author] from his granddaughter on Ebay, interestingly enough. For those that don't know, Doug recently passed away)
Shop, Shed and Road: The Live Steam Book - Curly Lawrence, known as LBSC
Model Boilers & Boilermaking by K. N. Harris
Model Locomotive Boilers Martin Evans
Gears and Gear Cutting Ivan Law
Engineering Handbook for Recreational Railroaders
Machinists Bedside Reader Vols 1-3 Guy Lautard
Model Engineer's Handbook - Tubal Cain

There are a few others I can't think of, on my bookshelf right now. Although this will be my first engine, and there will be many technical challenges, I start out with a little trepidation and some confidence as well. I look to Nelson Reidel's website http://www.nelsonslocomotive.com/ as one outstanding source of insipiration. After all, the Shay he built was his first engine, I think - so: if he can do it, I should be able build this Climax, as well. Kozo's books are an equally great source of inspiration.

I am a CNC machinist by trade. I work for Swagelok in Cleveland. We make fittings and valves. As far as manual machines: I have run a Bridgeport, engine lathe, surface grinder etc when I was in machinists' school. But not in the working world environment. My equipment in my shop consists of:

Industrial Hobbies Square Column Mill (currently working on installing DRO)
Lathemaster 9x20 Lathe (currently working on installing DRO)
Southbend 7" shaper, in really nice shape (I'm definitely going to learn how to use this - internal keyways come to mind, You could broach them but I don't have that capability yet. Maybe some day internal teeth on ring gear might be fun to experiment with on the shaper, perhaps)
Your standard stuff, like pedestal grinder, drill press, disk sander,etc.

(what I REALLY wish I had is a small surface grinder! like a Haig or a Sanford)

Shopsmith Mark V - mentioned because this can come in mighty handy, pressed into service as a secondary drill press for example. Used for various shop tasks. Whole bunch of other woodworking stuff - table saw, band saw (woodworking has now taken a serious backseat to Live Steam in my life)
Thanks everybody!
John
I guess it would make sense to do a self-introduction on dedicated thread, though

The wife and I are going to Cass WV, last week of Sept and I'm going to shoot dozens and dozens of photos of the Climax that's being restored by Mountain State Railroad & Logging Historical Association if they will let me . Then we're driving about a 1/2 hour up the road on the next day to ride the Climax (#3) at Durbin WV. The Durbin turbogenerator is mounted between the smoke stack and the head light -EXACTLY what I'm going to model. I need photos of that turbogenerator mounting close up and some measurements. -- I'm gonna shoot a dozen or so more photos. I like this youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYfT0_PmbWo She's sweet ! Working diligently and with class !!
Last edited by applejak_2000 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:50 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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applejak_2000
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by applejak_2000 » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:57 pm

Harold_V wrote:
applejak_2000 wrote:"Well, I suppose the owners are elderly and it's probably difficult to conduct business they way that they used to." I thought that because some publishers like "Strictly IC" and Guy Lautard can be a little like that
You likely know that the publisher of Strictly IC is no longer with us, having died a few years ago.

Harold
Actually I meant his wife Frances Washburn, with whom I communicated some four months ago, where I purchased back issues #48 - #79, about half of the years of publication. Having told her I would buy the back issues for the first half #1 - #47 at a later time.
However, it turns out the 1.6" scale Live Steam Climax project to which I am referring in this thread, has overtaken both my interests in Model IC engines and woodworking. I bought about half of the back issues for Model Engine Builder -- which Bob Washburn (whom you mention has passed a few years ago) wrote emeritus articles., but again, I'm not getting back to Model IC engines anytime soom, what with the Climax -- which is a formidable project to say the least, for me anyway. I would have loved to have met Bob Washburn. God Rest his Soul. Truly an icon in model engineering.
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applejak_2000
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Re: Advice on 5/16 -27 pipe tap & die

Post by applejak_2000 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 12:09 am

Greg_Lewis wrote:Something else to think about is that the 5/16-27 is a rather coarse thread. There is a 5/16-40 MTP thread now available from both AMES and Coles that might be a better choice. And you could also go with a straight 40 tpi thread. Special thread taps in hundreds of sizes are available from Victor Machinery in Brooklyn.
Thanks Greg --- I was unaware of that and shall have to take a look into it. What would be the advantage in using these other pipe threads such as 5/16-40 vice the 5/16-27 ? Are these used a great deal in Live Steam nowadays?
Last edited by applejak_2000 on Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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