Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

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Pipescs
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Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Thu Sep 22, 2011 8:40 pm

Long day at work today. No time in the shop.

Ordered a DRO PRO Three Axis at lunch today. Could not see buying a high end unit for an old mill.

Off tomorrow to go to the Mid South Live Steam Meet and pay up on my dues to be a member.

Will take the camera.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sat Sep 24, 2011 9:57 pm

Took the day off from work on Friday to drive to Columbia to see the Mid South Live Steam Fall Meet. Great day and met a lot of friendly people. Won't post too many photos as there will be tons on the MSLS website I am sure.

Paid up my dues and bought a hat.

Saw a lot of engines which most of the owners were more than happy to talk about.
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Went back today for a few hours. Mostly talking propane burners and boilers. Levi my son and a friend went up letting my son drive on the interstate for the first time. We survived.

Saw an interesting burner system developed by a member who lives in Tenn. I will post photos of it after I verify his last name to ensure I give him credit for a neat adaptation to a burner I have seen in industry all my life.

Ever sense I was at the Los Angeles run earlier this year I have considered propane as it appears much cleaner. Levi took these two photos today of two engines with their smokebox covers off. The propane fueled engine had blown its nozzle out of the exaust and the coal fired engine was just doing its daily clean out on the tubes.

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Levi did ask if the quality of the coal effected the amount of ash and was told by the owner that this was about the normal amount he brushed out after a long run day.

More Later.

I have the brass nut and lead screw out of the Mill working on Backlash adjustment and then off to bed.

I am on hold making anymore parts until the DRO is installed.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:01 am

What really impresses you about this group is how once I met someone they went out of their way to introduce me to other members and everyone took time out to answer my questions and make us feel welcome.

This is an Engine belonging to Greg Glos
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Did not get the owners name but this was one of the nicer engines on the track.

It ran for a short time on Saturday but had to shut down due to lubrication issues.
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I belive a good time was had by all
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Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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FLSTEAM
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by FLSTEAM » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:37 am

Saw a lot of engines which most of the owners were more than happy to talk about.
Oh come on now I can't imagine Live Steamers wanting to talk about their engines. :D

John B.
http://www.ngshay.com/
Shay drawings and castings

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:34 am

As I have mentioned I am looking at Propane for fireing the boiler.

At Columbia I met Mr. George Towne of Charlotte Tennesse. He was introduced to me as one of the more prolific builders having lost count of the engines he has built. I did meet at least five other people that own his engines. More than one owns two. He himself remembers having built over ten. His 91st birthday is approaching.

He has just completed a propane fired 2-4-2 that was kitbashed using a boiler and frame from a 0-4-0 Camelback that someone else had started. What caught my eye was his burner that he ad added.

It is a model of burner I have seen for years in the plants I have worked in. Come to think of it I believe my gas grill has something similar. All who have run it say it is an improvement over the normal burners.
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What I could not get a photo of was the horizontal slots in the tops of the tubes that were spaced about 3/8 inch apart inside the firebox.

This was an add on to this engine so they showed. We discussed if I went this route with my pacific I would want to shorten the depth of the fire box and have this under the cab floor out of sight.

On day two he brought this burnier in that is going into an engine he is building now. It has fewer tubes than the one he has completed.

It does not have the slots cut into the blackiron pipes yet. The side frames are 1.25 high Coldroll
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The cooper injectors are in fact wire guides from a welding supply house
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Tabs on the side frame will be welded to the bottom of the mud ring area.
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Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

mjahn
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by mjahn » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:39 am

Charlie,

NYC 2800 is owned by Earl Mueller. His son Conrad played a huge role in detailing that locomotive up.
Mattaniah Jahn

Matt Corps. Railsystems,
operating on the Manatee Central RR
http://www.flickr.com/photos/62441046@N06/sets/

boomerralph
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by boomerralph » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:45 pm

Pipescs wrote:Did not get the owners name but this was one of the nicer engines on the track.

It ran for a short time on Saturday but had to shut down due to lubrication issues.
This engine belongs to Earl Mueller from Florida, and yes thats a beautiful engine. it appears on our track often

http://www.neflsra.com
Ralph M. Reese
St. Augustine, FL
Under Construction
LE Pacific
Allen 10 Wheeler

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Steamin
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Steamin » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:42 am

Pictured first is Joel Pittenger from St. Louis with his powerful LE Pacific.
Also the smokebox with the loose exhaust nozzle insert.

Steamin

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kenrinc
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by kenrinc » Mon Sep 26, 2011 5:38 pm

Very interesting propane burner. I'm guessing the two steel rods are to align the jets with the pipes. Holes on bottom for secondary air intake. Ironically, I use MIG tips for all my foundry burners and was just on the cusp of designing something very similar for use in my loco. I was just looking at it from a different perspective. I kinda like this design better.

So the only thing missing is the slots spaced roughly 3/8" across the tops? Did they go halfway through?

Ken-

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Mon Sep 26, 2011 7:23 pm

The two steel pins went into holes on the steel frame. There were two set screws to hold them in place allowing you to adjust how far the went into the tubes
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Mr. Towne mentioned 12 PSI on the gas pressure for the larger burner. He also mentioned not letting a cold air come into the firebox around the burner frame and firebox walls.

My photo of the inside of the firebox came out blurry as it was in the shade. I do not believe the slots were quite half way.

If I go this route I believe I may build a test model to try on the bench first. But of course I am so far down the road from this that I will have to go back an read this forum to remember the idea.
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As far as the PS-4 I am on hold until I get the DRO up and working. I worked on taking the backlash out of the x axis lead screw only to find I have more wear in the center than the ends. To be expected with an older machine.

I have the blanks bolted together for the brake fulcrum side pieces and have them milled square and to the oustide deminsion. Planning on drilling all the holes and tap the ones that need it. My reasoning is that the holes that are used to bolt it into the frame are the most critical to line up at this point.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:26 pm

Another shot of Joel Pittenger's Pacific. He gave me tons of information and had an interesting chain drive backt to the trailing axle.
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His engine also runs on Propane and the fire off procedure and cleanliness impressed me.

It was a consistant performer hauling a lot of riders the two days I was there.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

kvom
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by kvom » Tue Sep 27, 2011 9:29 am

With a DRO mounted backlash is more an annoyance than a problem.

The mill spindle can be used to start taps vertically after drilling the holes. Most tap breakage results from starting the tap crooked.

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