Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

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Pipescs
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Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:04 pm

Have redrawn the plans for the Horizontal Pins and am (in the short time I have had in the shop) cutting the six pieces of barstock to .625 x .750. While I have yet to work out a bit for a fly cutter I did find that I had a set of inserts to use a endmill setup that I had purchased years ago and forgot about.
DSC_0019.jpg
Working great.

Today I ordered a counterboring bit from ENCO for the bolt holes in the binders. along with some various recommended roughing endmills to try

One thing that is apparent right off the bat is how much simpler the machining of the bottom of the frame will be with the use of the horizontal pin. When I had the watercut work done I had left extra material to work with on the tabs that locked into the binders. This will be cut off flush now.
DSC_0200.jpg


If I am on track the next step on the frame will be
1. Bolt the frames together. (my welding is not good)
2. Set them up on the table to fly cut the top reference line on the frame. (the oversized vice may come in handy here)
3. Turn the frame over and mill the bottom side to the drawing.
4. Lay out, Drill and tap the bolt holes on the bottom of the frame for the binders
5. Bolt the binders in place then layout and drill the holes for the dowl pins (using a piecse of .005 shim stock when bolting them in place to ensure a tight fit later)

Talking with you guys I believe I will have better luck with alignment if I mill out the pedestal opening with the binders attached

Off to the football field with the kids.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:17 pm

In my dreams of finishing this I have settled on Engine number 1395


I have found these two photos for the 1395 early and late version on the net.

As I have the baker valve gear from Roger Goldman I am going with the early version. I have also started the drawings for what I have come to call the long tube version of the pilot which is on the early photos.
#1395.jpg
#1395 2.jpg
If anyone can provide other photos they would be greatly appreciated.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:51 pm

The day has been pleasant around here. I did not get a lot done on the binders but the shop layout is improving. I should have the counterboring bit in by mid week and will try to get them all finished up this next week.

In the mean time I have started the main frame clean up to be able to bolt them together for the next stage.

Thanks for all the input on the drawings as they are now easer to machine out the parts from and the use of the dowels shouldl make it easier to build and maintain in the future.
201Pedestal Binderl (5).jpg
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

Mike Walsh
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Mike Walsh » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:05 pm

For future reference, if you have a DRO and want to make things easier, there's no reason you can't use an endmill slightly larger than the diameter of the SHCS to counterbore. Yes, you might have a bit of a tapered bottom, but I don't see the stresses being such a big problem anyway. This is something handy to remember if you have a variety of endmills on hand though.

-Mike

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:15 pm

I had wondered about this. Right now my selection is pretty narrow. My small Taig would only mount up to a 3/8 inch diameter.

Why would there be taper at the bottom?
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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GlennW
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by GlennW » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:51 am

End mills are not flat bottom cutters. The have relief toward the axis so that they only cut on the perifery when milling which improves finish.

If used to plunge as a counterbore for a SHCS the high point will be at the center of the bore, so the head of the SHCS will only seat on a very small raised area where the head and the shank meet.

The annoying thing about purchasing SHCS counterbores, is that there seem to be many either different standards, or the lack of one. If you look, you will find different diameter cutters for the same head size. I prefer a close fit, but some cutters leave way too much room around the head, which really don't care for.

Some brands publish the dimensions, some don't.
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

Mike Walsh
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Mike Walsh » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:13 am

Let's say you have a 3/4" 4-flute endmill (most of us have the basic 4-flute 3/4" endmill in our arsenal).

Take your 6" scale and put it across the very tip of the 12:00 and 6:00 flutes and look at the gap in the light. You will see a taper towards the middle on the very bottom. That is the taper I was cutting. Will the stresses on a 1/2" SHCS c'bore (using an endmill) be problematic? Probably not. Besides I'm sure SHCS has a slight inward taper from the forming process anyway...

Mike

Harold_V
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Harold_V » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:19 pm

Glenn Wegman wrote:End mills are not flat bottom cutters. The have relief toward the axis so that they only cut on the perifery when milling which improves finish.

If used to plunge as a counterbore for a SHCS the high point will be at the center of the bore, so the head of the SHCS will only seat on a very small raised area where the head and the shank meet.

The annoying thing about purchasing SHCS counterbores, is that there seem to be many either different standards, or the lack of one. If you look, you will find different diameter cutters for the same head size. I prefer a close fit, but some cutters leave way too much room around the head, which really don't care for.

Some brands publish the dimensions, some don't.
I have, routinely, addressed these issues, along with the breaking of pilots, by hand grinding flat bottomed drills for use as counterbores. Like Glenn, I prefer the fit be snug, but even bastard sized heads can be accommodated easily. The only real negative is that one must establish the diameter to prevent winging of the flat bottom drill. Not a big deal, but it does require a change of drills for each hole. Inconvenient, yes, but far more convenient that breaking pilots. Anyone that has used counterbores in production can attest, that's a real nuisance.

If depth is an issue, the starter drill is longer than the flat bottom drill, then final depth can be tightly controlled by bottoming the flat bottom drill in the chuck each time it is used, so a set stop repeats. Depth of the starter hole is controlled visually.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Pipescs
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:24 pm

Thanks.

Managed to work in the shop today.

As a newbe I have to brag on something you old salts have probably know for years. My neighbor had loaned me a magnet on wheels to use after our roof was replaced. When I was thru with it, in trying to return, I ended up buying it as he did not really want it back.

Rolling this thing around the shop after working for a few hours has really cut down on clean up.
DSC_0135.jpg
DSC_0136.jpg
It is sold by Harbor Frieght and is cleaned by simply raising the magnet with a handle
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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Fender
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Fender » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:21 pm

Oh, crud. I was thinking I had most everything I needed in my shop, and now you post this..... :roll:
Dan Watson

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GlennW
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Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by GlennW » Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:30 pm

Does the handle on that thing have a position for picking up aluminum? :wink:

I could use one of those to find the thread wires I drop... :oops:
Glenn

Operating machines is perfectly safe......until you forget how dangerous it really is!

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Pipescs
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Location: Lester Alabama

Re: Building the Southern Railway PS-4 Frame

Post by Pipescs » Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:53 pm

I am still looking for the aluminum/brass button.
Charlie Pipes
USMC Retired

Current Projects:

2.5 Baldwin 2-4-2/2-4-4/0-4-4 Conversion (What ever)
Little Engines American Restoration
Bobber Caboose

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