Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

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redneckalbertan
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by redneckalbertan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:59 am

ccvstmr wrote:...be sure to orient the burners so the flame spears interleave...don't let them impinge on one another...
I'm curious, what is the reason behind this? What would happen, or what would the disadvantages be of letting the flames from different burners interfere with each other?

Dale_F
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Dale_F » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:15 pm

Wow - not sure where TrainMan shops, but that 10 jet burner he has (10k BTU at 10psi) is available from BayouClassicDepot.com for $28!

I am not affiliated with Bayou Classic, nor with TrainMan!

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ccvstmr
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by ccvstmr » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:01 pm

RNA...don't know if NOT interleaving the flame spears would cause a reduction in heat (I kind of doubt it), but it would open "holes" in the bed of flames and allow cold air thru burners. By interleaving the flames, you're filling in the spaces between flame spears on adjacent burners. When using propane burners, you want to get as much benefit from every unit of fuel that's burned.

Dale...as for the impingement burner that Trainman suggested (or alternate source)...one problem with these types of burners is the head space needed to develop the Btu output. If I remember from the old Solarflo burner spec sheets...impingement burners needed something like 8-12" of head space for combustion...makes sense for a home central heating furnace or hot water heater system, but not for 1.5" scale steam locos that don't have that head room in the firebox. Rosebud burners only need something like 3-6" of head space...that's doable for most of our steam loco applications.

Hope that helps. Carl B.
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redneckalbertan
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by redneckalbertan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:28 pm

Thanks for the answer Carl.

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Jacob's dad
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Jacob's dad » Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:57 pm

http://www.bayouclassicdepot.com/618lp- ... burner.htm

Can the brass burners be removed from the ring and placed on a new 1" square tubing manifold to work in a locomotive firebox?

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ccvstmr
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by ccvstmr » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:19 pm

Jeff,

Don't know why you couldn't remove those jets from the casting...depends on what might have been used to glue, set or secure the threads on the brass jets. If you bought this burner just for the jets, the price isn't bad.

HOWEVER...did you read the note at the bottom? ...where it says to have 12" of head space from the burner tip to the heating surface? I highly doubt this burner arrangement with less head space would "melt the pot" unless the pot was made of some low melting metal (maybe too if the pot was empty). IMO...I don't believe these types of burners are best suited for live steam vertical or horizontal boilers. Carl B.
Life is like a sewer...what you get out of it depends on what you put into it!
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Jacob's dad
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Jacob's dad » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 pm

Thank you for the response. I will just make Marty burners when I get to that point then. It just looked like it would save time making burners.

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ccvstmr
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by ccvstmr » Fri Apr 12, 2013 9:36 am

Jeff...

I tried to make my "pilot burner" using the Marty Burner design years ago. I wasn't satisfied with the results. Maybe you'll have better luck. You might try to fabricate one burner to start with, hook up some fuel (with a regulator) to try it out first before you start a production run. The trickiest part will be drilling the primary fuel orifice...it's a .026" hole (#71) drill.

If you can't get a nice blue flame when firing the burner...you might be time (and frustration) ahead by buying something from a place like Locoparts...or buy a commercial made burner assembly and rob the burners. Just saying...

Carl B.
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Al_Messer
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Al_Messer » Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:31 pm

How about the burner out of a Turkey deep fryer?

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steamin10
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by steamin10 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:01 am

I would like to comment that a run of burner nozzles woud be easier than cutting wheels. I have hex bar stock in brass, but dont have a clue as to sizes and bores, bits and drills for a burner jet. These parts are fairly simple to machine in my view.

If a fuel gas flame is cooled on a water plate, you will get carbon black. This colorant for tires and other goods is pure carbon sucked off of a flame when the combustion is less than complete. That is the problem with some long burners. Long burners are conveinient to control in open air, ( water heater) but less so in confined areas like a modle boiler, where flame path and air mix are much more defined and demanding. That is why 'flower burners' are more successfull as boiler burners. The Meeker burner theory apples here. The same gas flow through a pencil flame and a gridded flame, produce the same BTU's, but because the grid breaks up the flow, the yeild in heat is at that boundry. Hence the overhead is low, and available heat is there for the absorbsion, wherever that can occur.

I built several burners for small boat boilers, out of torch parts and heads. They were very successful, except for throttling issues, and flame wall (chambered boilers). Scotch and double flow boilers were more productive, since they demanded less flame impingment on metal parts.

There is a lot of ability in ceramic plates, and i would look very hard at such burners that have small overheads. These ciramic blocks are the basis of infared heaters.
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Trainman4602
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Trainman4602 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:31 am

Jeff

If you Google “gas burner nozzle” you will find tons of the exact same nozzles that are used on the ring burner that I posted.

You will be supersized to find the on eBay you can buy 12 nozzles for $15.00.

We all have a great power the internet if used properly you can find anything.
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Jacob's dad
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Re: Propane burner suggestions for 6" vertical boiler

Post by Jacob's dad » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:20 pm

Thank you Trainman4602. We met at Ridge Live Steamers last year at the winter meet although I'm sure you met many folks. We enjoy your videos. Our youngest son has you, Mr. Pete222, and any other live steam video that he can find on how to build an engine saved on his youtube and he watches them all of the time. I am working with him in the shop to teach him how to operate our lathes, mill, and other various tools because he is determined to build an engine. I have never seen another 10 year old with the drive that this child has to build his own engine. When I am ready to go in.......he wants to set up or make just one more item to be closer to finishing his project.

I will snoop around and see what I can find. I would like to convert my father's Little Engine's Baldwin Mogul that has a copper boiler to propane for our boys to learn to operate. I like the idea of being able to turn off the fire if there is an issue, although I won't let them get in a situation where there would be an issue while learning. Once they have the propane down, I will switch it back to coal.

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