Working sanders for locomotive.

[johnluke]

Hi guys/gals
I have a 1.5 Pennsy k-4 that has been running for several years now. One of the clubs I visit has a couple grades that the locomotive slips on quite a bit with a decent train behind it. I'm kicking the idea around of making working sanders for it. I've searched and searched with no luck finding any drawings or ways to make this happen. Just wondering if any of you have any ideas? Thanks for any input.
John

[cp4449]

I am no expert on this, but at LALS our steam engine sander is gravity fed. There is a manual valve I open and close and the sand runs down. We use play sand that is very dry.

Every Berksire I have seen has them. I would assume that there is a air pressure helping to send the sand. The other thing that is a problem is the fineness of the sand.

Anyone else out there care to comment? Any Berkshire owners?

[Harold_V]

I would assume that there is a air pressure helping to send the sand. The other thing that is a problem is the fineness of the sand.

You can solve that riddle by buying bagged silica sand. It's available in a #70, which is quite fine and should flow effortlessly.
Be careful of breathing the dust, however.

I buy it from a concrete supply house in a nearby town, but it is not used as suggested. Can't comment if it would work, or not, but I suspect it would.

Harold

[johnluke]

I was thinking of using compressed air because I have one that fits in my tender. I also agree about the fine sand, it certainly makes sense that it will flow better and not clog the pipe up very easily. I guess the next thing is to come up with a valve/device for opening and closing the sand supply lines.
I would think the way to pressurize the system would be to put air to the sand dome, and not to the supply pipes? I know there are people that have them working, hoping someone will chime in here.
John

[LivingLegend]

First of all, if you aren't using a gravity feed sander, don't just think about using air.... use it. You don't want to use steam. And you want to use a trap system as the full size locos did.

And no, you don't want to pressurize or otherwise put air into the sand box.

Look at the sanding systems on a full size loco and the way they are made and set up. Use that as a starting point. If you don't care if the sander trap looks prototypical, a trap can be made using something as simple as a plumbing 'T'.

LL

[LivingLegend]

For the sand itself, you can use the same sand used in sand/media blasting cabinets. Many grit sizes are available.... You just don't want a super fine grit that will pack in the sand pipes.

LL

[johnpenn74]

I once saw air sanders on one of Joe Whitakers locos. I am sure he had a simple practical design for sander T will have to look.

He also used a bicycle air pump (plunger with button) in the bunker to charge the line. Nice alternative if you DIDN'T have air.

JP

[johnluke]

I definetly will not use steam as it is obviously too wet. After running some tests in my shop last night, like LL said the grain of the sand (i tested glass bead, all i have) is extremely important. Too fine and it WILL clog the tubing. Now I have to start testing other sands or glass etc to find the right grain.

[johnluke]

I'm hoping someone with working sanders can point me in the right direction as far a type/grain. It certainly will be nice to get these working one day.

[DianneB]

My LE American has a heck of a time getting up the grade on the spur from the steaming bays to the main line, particularly in the early morning when the track is wet - it slips like crazy! It has one 'decorative' dome with nothing in it that could be modified to hold sand ...... wonder where I could hide one of those rubber squeeze bulbs to puff air into the sand line?

[aopagary]

check this entry in the Berkshire Construction Photos string...

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 24#p257926

after a few attempts were made in some Berkshire builds to route sand from the dome without much success, Jim Kreider has designed a chassis mounted sander. yet to be tested in operation, i have a good feeling this system will be the most successful to date.

http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 60#p285078

in the 3rd photo, you can see the sand box fill pipe sticking up just behind the hot water pump which will eventually be hidden more completely by the running board.

[kcameron]

To see a working one, check out Mill Creek Railroad for the loco 'Termite'. It has a working sander (well sort of) and it does help. They use a hand pump like a bicycle pump to use dry air. Air pumps running off steam seem to have a lot of wet and oil and you would need to filter out both of those. The air is used to 'siphon' the sand, sort of like an injector. It was an interesting loco to run.