paint job

[Stuie]

I know we recently discussed paints not too long ago, but I am wondering, how do you get it to look this good? Would you spray the paint with a gloss coat after the normal paint cured, or would it just be a one spray job? I see so many paint jobs that look good, but have no idea how to create the same results!

[PSeyfrit]

I know painting has been covered before but it you are looking for an award winning method try this book with the odd title of "How not to paint a locomotive"

http://www.amazon.com/How-Paint-Locomot ... locomotive

I added the UK site as it has a better description of the book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/How-Paint-Locom ... 0955335906

[gwrdriver]

Stuart,
A lot of it is using a good paint . . . and they don't make paint as good as they used to, at least not so you and I can get it easily. All the noxious volatiles (ie, the stuff that makes good paint good) has been taken out to protect us from ourselves. Most aerosol paints (from Home Depot etc) just don't measure up because they are typically short on pigment, but you can get aerosols made up from auto paint dealers which do measure up. Some years ago Pettit Marine Paints made a line of paints for model builders called Hobby-Poxy, a two-part paint in small quantities, which was a great product and cured to a beautiful finish. It's gone of course, too many noxious volatiles to trust in the hands of amateurs. Glidden made one of the best industrial enamels I ever used but the product was modified (became "new and improved") which of course meant it was nothing like its former self and a complete waste of money . . . but you had to waste your money to find that out.

When I get to that point, I will begin to paint my current locomotive project with Valspar Tractor Enamel purchased a while back at Tractor Supply Co store. Valspar has always been a good name in paints, but I noticed on my last visit to that TSC has discontinued it. Now that's convenient. I'll try a test painting with the Valspar and if that doesn't work out I'll try automotive paint.

PS - Relative to Ernie's post . . . I always use an automotive self-etch primer, usually aerosol Sherwin-Williams GBP-988 which is excellent.

[Metalman]

Automotive primers and paint will give you the results you are looking for. Epoxy primer and urethane top coats. The down side is you need quality spray equipment and need to control the work environment plus protect yourself from the harmfull chemicals.

[kenrinc]

Some years ago Pettit Marine Paints made a line of paints for model builders called Hobby-Poxy, a two-part paint in small quantities, which was a great product and cured to a beautiful finish.

Interesting. The "HobbyPoxy" that I and many model airplane guys are familiar with was made by K&B Manufacturing. It's now call "UltraPoxy" but it was always made by a company called Diversified Solutions which also makes Klass Kote. Both are 2 part epoxy systems. They are good and I do recommend them.

I support your suggestion for tractor paint and I think it's a good option as it flows out well just using a brush and that is a big advantage. Some can also be "stung" with a hardener for more durability. I wish it was easier to get a hold of though. Essentially oil based heavy alkyd resins. Sometimes referred to as "fleet" paint out in the west. Good stuff.

Hardware store spray paint can be used. Duplicolor engine enamel is one of the better ones and you can't fault being able to touch up at a later date. The bigger issue (already mentioned) is that with less pigment you need lots of layers. It can be done though and many really experience modelers use it with good results. Once the model is run and is covered in steam cylinder oil it's usually well protected

I use 2 part automotive epoxy for ground coats on everything. On my current locomotive I used Scalecoat, model railroad color for the basecoat covered with a satin clear 2 part epoxy (Klass Kote) but I hesitate to recommend it to the typical modeler because most don't have the spray and safety equipment needed to apply it. I've painted and restored close to 15 classic cars over the last 10 years so I have a bit of experience in the area...

Ken-

[gwrdriver]

Ken,
Perhaps K&B was the "distributor", in any case I've had this paint for quite some time, and things change, I'll have to check out the newer poxy products.

[kenrinc]

GW,

The last time I used the stuff was in the 80's so it is fuzzy . But after a bit of walking through old copies of RC Modeler, I believe you are correct. The original name for the K&B stuff was SuperPoxy. HobbyPoxy was infact a Pettit product. For what it's worth, I have confirmed that it can be intermixed with Klass Kote for those who may have some of the old stuff left.

Ken-

[Pontiacguy1]

I wouldn't use the Valspar Tractor implement enamel on a boiler jacket, although for anything else it will probably be just fine. I used it on one of my locomotives and during the first firing it started sagging and wrinkling. It just couldn't take the heat of the boiler jacket, and was ruined. That was my experience with it. For the boiler jacket, you can get engine enamels that can withstand 500 degrees, and you can get those in various colors, including gloss black. That's what I use on the jacket. On the smoke box there is a paint that is a super-high temperature flat black. It has to be painted on and then brought up to temperature and cooled several times to cure properly. I painted the smoke box and then set that in my grill. At first I turned it on fairly low, left it for about 25 minutes, took it out and set it down for about 20 minutes, then put it back in on medium. Repeat again on high heat, and then let it cool. It is a pretty nice flat black that is tough and is supposed to be able to stand up to 1,200 degrees after that type of cure cycle.

I will point out that I didn't lag the boiler, so if you do that it the tractor implement enamel will probably survive OK.

[gwerhart0800]

Slight hijack ... I have a copper boiler with an aluminum stack and smokebox door to paint. So, what do people use when painting high temperature areas and on metals like copper and aluminum?

[gwrdriver]

George,
Just bare copper? That's going to be dodgy, copper is an "oily" metal, but it can be done. I would start by putting a "scrub" on the copper, and by that I mean a good going over first with a degreaser followed by a mild abrasive, such as a Scotchbrite wheel, or even an aggressive pickle would do it, in order to impart some sort of "tooth" to the surface of the copper. I would apply then apply a coat of automotive self-etch primer and let that cure out well. Needless to say any hint of oil or fingerprints would need to be removed. After it's cured out, and while it's still clean, apply your color . . . then sit back and wait to see if the whole lot peels off.

No doubt someone is going to mention "baking," and when using conventional enamels I'm not convinced that baking will do what most folks think it will do, which is, make the paint tougher, or harder, and adhere better beyond what it was formulated to be. My opinion is that baking does just one thing, force the paint to "go off" (drive off the volatiles) and dry more quickly. Otherwise it can actually be destructive, especially if done at some of the ridiculously high temperatures I've seen recommended by model builders. I've "baked" a few things, with satisfactory results, but never let things go above about 150-175F.

[kenrinc]

Prep copper and brass with some type of acid etch solution. First wash the part with a scotbrite pad and good dishwashing soap like Dawn. You want the part clean enough that water will not "ball" up on it's surface. You want to see clean sheets of water washing off. After that, use Jasco metal etch or "Must for Rust", their all the same: phosphoric acid wash. GW gives good advice on scratching it up. Scotchbrite or 320 grit wet or dry followed by another soap and scotchbrite wash. A final wipe with acetone and then paint away.

As for the paint itself, heat resistant paints like VHT flame proof enamels, Rustoleum HighHeat bbq paint or a "specialty" exhaust header coating from Eastwood should all work well and all come in a rattle can. For a smokebox, try to select something that is good to 800F or above since it is possible to reach 500F on the outside of the smokebox, especially burning propane.

Ken-

[gwerhart0800]

Thanks for the suggestions on painting the copper smokebox area. I have not seen a high temp self-etching primer ... I am open to suggestions on a brand for that one.

Any ideas on the aluminum? Would the same paints and prep be fine for that?

BTW, Given the tiny firebox (4"x4"), I plan on using propane for the fire. I am going to steal an idea from my G scale live steam and insulate the smokebox on the inside with some thin white sheet insulation I have, That should protect the paint there. It will not help with the stack though.