A Long Term Project

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Steve Goodbody
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:13 pm

Hi all,

I'm afraid that I'm not much of a message poster, but several years ago I submitted a message which included a few pictures of my ongoing project to build a 7.25" narrow-gauge - 3 inch scale - Hunslet quarry loco using a small round-bed lathe (1902 vintage), a drill and basic hand tools (see; "Building a Loco on a Budget"). All of the turning and milling has been done on the lathe and everything else has been down to a hacksaw, files and plenty of elbow-grease. The project is still ongoing but is nearing the end - mostly just pipework and fittings left to complete at this stage.

I was recently asked to contribute some information and pictures about the lathe for a website and I thought that some of the folks here may be interested in the result. The website address is:
http://lathes.co.uk/georgeadamsroundbed/
There are a couple of pages of information with pictures, the second page includes a picture of the locomotive on its cart positioned next to the lathe. I've attached that same picture below.
For Chaski.jpg
Happy machining to all!
Steve

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Fred_V
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Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Fred_V » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:59 pm

My congratulations to you. I cannot imagine doing what you have done with that equipment. Amazing.
Fred V
Pensacola, Fl.

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Harlock
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Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Harlock » Mon Jun 16, 2014 6:01 pm

It's nice to see more people working in 3" scale. Beautiful engine and beautiful old lathe. Many live steamers in the earlier part of the 20th century built models with nothing more than a lathe and a drill press. We are very spoiled these days with collets, quick change tool posts, milling machines with DROs and power feeds, etc.

I operated a similar prototype hunslet called "Lilla" at the Ffestiniog railway back in 2001. In fact, that's what got me hooked on Live Steam. I realized owning a full size locomotive was impractical, but with live steam I get all the fun in a transportable, manageable package.

-M
San Lorezo Flume & Lumber Co. #2 - "Felton"
Live Steam Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com
Contributing Editor, Live Steam Magazine
Webmaster, Allen Models of Nevada

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gwrdriver
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Location: Nashville Tennessee

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by gwrdriver » Tue Jun 17, 2014 10:11 am

That's the way it used to be done, until we were propagandized into believing we need a 14" variable speed lathe and CNC Bridgeport, QC tooling, DROs, water jet and laser cutters, lab grade measuring tools, and a 3-D printer (I could go on) in order to produce anything worth having.

There is a very small town about 40 miles from me way out in the country which has (or had) an used tool shop and occasionally on my travels I would stop in to poke around. One one visits I was astounded to see they had a complete Round-Bed Drummond, sitting on the front porch, used as a screen door stop. Price: $25.00. What I wondered first was how a Round-Bed Drummond made it's was from England to the front porch of a used tool shop in rural Tennessee? In any case I thought it my duty as an admirer and preserver of old iron to tell the owners (if they didn't know already) a little bit about what they had. On my next visit the Drummond had been moved inside and now sported a tag reading "British lathe - Rare Collector's Item - $2500." All that side I was impressed by just how heavily-built the machine was, more so than it appeared in pictures and illustrations. I don't know if there was more than one model of the Round-bed but my recollection of the machine I saw (with Drummond nameplate still attached) was that it appeared to have heavier basic castings than this machine.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Steve Goodbody
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:22 am

Hi all,

Many thanks for the kind comments, I'm glad that the pictures were of interest.
Here are some pictures of the loco. At this stage many of the platework nuts and bolts are missing or are temporary, there's a white protective sheet between the boiler and the saddle tank, and everything's covered in oil and grease. Please accept my apologies for everything except the oil and grease - I'm paranoid about rust!

I hope that this is of interest, and wish you all happy machining.
Steve
Attachments
Front and Side.jpg
Rear - Doors Closed.jpg
Access for driving is via two sliding rear doors. The doors are closed in this picture.
Rear - Doors Open.jpg
And the doors are open here
Cab Rear Left.jpg
Cab Rear Right.jpg

Steve Goodbody
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:30 am

A few more pictures:
Attachments
Left Crosshead.jpg
Right Rear Crank.jpg
Vacuum Pipe Support.jpg
The large orange pipe is for the vacuum brakes. The small black pipes are oil from the lubricator and the feed to a steam chest pressure gauge
Spectacle Plate and Whistles.jpg
Main Crank - Left.jpg

Steve Goodbody
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:17 am

A few more pictures taken recently showing the emergency handpump, safety valves and dome, and cylinder lubricator.

The handpump is mounted sideways under the cab and the handle is stowed below the pump when not in use. There's a picture of the handle both stowed and fitted for use. Also in these pictures are the handbrake screw and lever, the ashpan dump pin (below the handbrake lever) and the rocking grate release pin (behind the handbrake screw and with the taper handle pointing downwards).

For anyone familiar with quarry Hunslets you'll probably notice that the handbrake is on the wrong side of the engine. I did this for a couple of reasons; first to give more room to operate both the handbrake and the reversing lever (aka Johnson bar), and secondly to give more space to wash out the boiler on the right side. You may also have noticed an extra bearing at the bottom-rear of the frames; this is a cross-shaft for the steam and vacuum brakes. Although in no way prototypical, the locomotive has three brake types - hand, steam (engine-only) and vacuum (engine plus train).

The lubricator is a single-piston type driven by roller clutches, it feeds oil to the common steam line from the superheaters. The tank is a silver-soldered brass fabrication.

The safety valves are typical Ramsbottom with a common central spring. Ramsbottom valves are generally prone to not fully seating once they've lifted and, while these work fine on air at present, I'm sure they'll leak eventually. In my experience with similar valves on traction engines the problem is easily resolved with a gentle tap on the easing lever with the firing rake. That will be the solution here and with the advantage that, on a Hunslet, you don't have to reach the length of the engine to do so!

The outer dome cover is a gunmetal (bronze) casting machined internally but with the external surfaces finished by hand. It took fully four days to finish the outside using files and progressively finer abrasive paper. With the radio playing in the background I find this kind of work very therapeutic! I've also included a picture of the dome cover mounted on the lathe to machine the manifold (fountain) slots.

Happy machining to all,
Steve
Attachments
Hand Pump - Handle Mounted.jpg
Hand Pump - Handle Stowed.jpg
Lubricator1.jpg
Safety Valves.jpg
Dome Cover Slots.jpg

Pontiacguy1
Posts: 781
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:15 am
Location: Tennessee, USA

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Pontiacguy1 » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:42 am

People in general used to be able to do a lot more with less tools and equipment. Some of the old guys in the hobby when I was a kid could make locomotive chassis using a small lathe, hand drill, hand tools, a vice, and some files. I've seen the same things from members of my mother's family. There are a lot of engineers, mechanics, boiler makers, fabricators, and assorted other mechanical trades represented in that family. They all got their start by fixing and working on things on their own, because they never had the money to pay someone else to fix it for them. They got in there and figured out how to do it themselves. That lead to other things, and so on down the line. That side of the famiy also seems to be endowed with a very large amount of mechanical aptitude. Too many people today have never made anything or had to figure out how to fix something using just what they have available. It makes people better learners and more ingenious... Necessity is the mother of Invention.

The locomotive looks great! You've done a good job with it. The lathe, i'm sure, is in good shape for its age. The main thing about old machines is that you can make really good parts as long as the operator has patience and care, and isn't trying to turn out parts in production time. In the end, it's the final product that counts, and yours looks outstanding.

Steve Goodbody
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Thu Jun 26, 2014 1:23 pm

Again, many thanks for the kind comments.

As you can probably guess I hate the idea of getting rid of something that still has some useful life in it. To me, part of the fun is figuring out what can be done with what you have. It will definitely take longer but, personally, the journey gives me as much enjoyment as arriving at the destination.

I've always been into steam and started model engineering at the age of 12. I didn't know any other model engineers, and had no knowledge or experience of metalwork, but I knew that I wanted to build a working steam loco and just needed to figure out how. I started off with a Rob Roy, buying Martin Evans' book, the steel for the chassis, and a small bench-top drill press at an exhibition. After finishing the frames I think my parents realized that I was serious and agreed to let me have some space in the garage for a small workshop.

I started looking around for a lathe and, fortunately, came across this one close to where I lived. The seller was a retired toolmaker in his seventies and I think that he was impressed with my enthusiasm and the fact that I had already finished the chassis frames. Using all of my savings, and still needing a whole years' advance on my allowance to make up the shortfall, I managed to come up with the asking price on my 13th birthday. To my amazement the seller then threw in a whole array of hand tools, all of which I still have and still use to this day. In fact my workshop equipment is mostly his workshop equipment. It's all old but it's well looked after and it still works just fine. I will always be extremely grateful to that man and to my parents for their support.

Shortly after buying the lathe the seller got back in touch and asked me if I'd like some old Model Engineer magazines. I'd started reading ME by then, had learnt a lot from it, and jumped at his offer. Again to my surprise I came away with a nearly complete set of magazines dating from 1949! I learned a huge amount from those magazines and still re-read them every few years (I'm in the process of doing so right now in fact). Although they're old and outdated there's a lot of good information in there and I always pick up something new or relevant to whatever part I'm currently working on or planning.

In short, and with apologies for my rambling story, technology has advanced hugely in recent decades and there are fantastic options and techniques available to our hobby. I see things in the magazines and on this board that absolutely amaze me; CNC... rapid prototyping... water jet, flame and plasma cut parts ready-made and off the shelf, you name it. It's truly fantastic and there are parts and locomotives being produced by folk that are simply incredible and which I know I could not possibly ever match with my means and methods. However, and I guess my point here, is that the techniques and equipment that were the mainstay of model engineering for over a century are still a valid option and remain a viable starting point into the hobby. A lot can still be done with a little, the only real trick is to take the bull by the horns and get started.

Best regards and happy machining,
Steve

mattmason
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Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by mattmason » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:06 pm

To defend the hernia gauge guys here (not something I often do) in the early days 1" scale was considered large. You can't really bore Meg cylinders on an 8" South Bend. I do agree with you that too many people can't think they can built a loco because they don't have a 21" CNC lathe.
Harlock wrote:Many live steamers in the earlier part of the 20th century built models with nothing more than a lathe and a drill press. We are very spoiled these days with collets, quick change tool posts, milling machines with DROs and power feeds, etc.

-M
Matt Mason

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gwrdriver
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Location: Nashville Tennessee

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by gwrdriver » Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:17 pm

Thanks Steve, that's a fine job.
GWRdriver
Nashville TN

Steve Goodbody
Posts: 108
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 7:16 am

Re: A Long Term Project

Post by Steve Goodbody » Fri Jun 27, 2014 11:55 am

Again, thank you and you're very welcome. I just hope that my rambling isn't too tedious.

Here are another few detail pictures, mostly showing the brake cylinder setup. I know that brakes are sometimes a touchy subject and I offer these simply as pictures of the locomotive and without providing either recommendation or opinion.

As mentioned earlier, in addition to the handbrake I've fitted the loco with both a steam brake cylinder and a vacuum brake cylinder. Both of these brake cylinders are shoehorned into the space immediately behind the boiler. The vacuum brake setup is of the 'simple' type but with a vacuum reservoir which will be kept permanently evacuated by the ejector. The vacuum reservoir is the horizontal tank located between the two vertical brake cylinders.

The vacuum brake will be applied by a three-way valve (apply-lap-release), the application being made by connecting the train pipe to the vacuum reservoir via the brake valve. My theory is that the reservoir will improve the response speed of the brake application because the train pipe pressure should drop more rapidly when immediately exposed to this low-pressure volume. My past experience with the simple vacuum system is that the brake application can initially be slow while the ejector evacuates the brake pipe, time will tell whether this reservoir improves things or not. The reservoir is also the low-point in the system and should also act as a condensate trap - the condensate drain plug is missing in the third picture but there's the threaded drain hole in the end of the tank.

The steam brakes will be operated by a proportioning valve based on the design published by Martin Evans in the Model Engineer magazine for the 'Highlander' locomotive. This same design seems to have been used on many locomotives over the years and reportedly works well. My goal is to incorporate both the vacuum and steam brake systems into one body, possibly with one brake handle, but I haven't yet sat down with pen and paper to figure out the design in detail.

The vacuum brake cylinder is shielded from the boiler to prevent the rubber diaphragm from getting too hot, a part of that shield is temporarily installed in the second picture. Conversely the steam brake cylinder is purposely not shielded so that it is kept hot. The copper pipe in the third picture is from the steam brake cylinder exhaust valve.

The water gauges are fabricated from 932 bronze bar with phosphor-bronze taper plug cocks. 932 is an alloy which is a close analog to 'gunmetal' and it machines and solders just like it. All of the boiler fittings are being made from 932 bronze and in this general style.

Lastly, the two push-pull handles located below the boiler washout plugs are for the drain cocks. One is for the cylinder drains and the other is for valve chest drains. The original loco did not have valve chest drains but I'm a fan of getting as much condensate out of the cylinders as possible during warm-up and when preparing for winter. The cylinders and valve chests are inclined and the valve drains are installed at the low point.


As always, happy machining to all,
Steve
Attachments
Steam Brake Cylinder.jpg
Brake Cylinders.jpg
Steam Brake Underneath.jpg
Water Gauges.jpg
Washout Plugs.jpg

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