Hi.
As we are still looking for a used cnc machine, I came across this 1997 Emcoturn 365/42 with 12 station turret and driven tools, and the machine has 9000 spindlehours on it. Siemens 840D control.
The seller says that it is a "production" machine mainly, but we are making small series (1-2 pcs) of prototyping parts.
No problem if I need to spend 3 hours of programming.
Eventually we will produce a small series of parts in tre region of 100-200 pcs.
The machine is relatively cheap, and that means we can order a service on it- I have still not seen/tested the machine, but are planning on doing it next week.
What do you think, is it a good machine for us?
Jørgen
Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Moderator: Harold_V
Re: Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Hi,
My CNC eposure is limited to hobby CNC, but I'm a retired engineer so what follows is based on my experience in both areas.
The other day I put "Emcoturn 365/42" in Google and looked at a couple of videos that came up on Youtube. The second one was very impressive as it showed turning a complex part. There were even two hex flats at different points on the part and they were turned using a milling cutter in one of the driven tool holders. That was done while the part was turning so fast that it was just a blur and you couldn't see what was happening until later in the video when the part was stopped.
I checked back today and that particular video doesn't seem to be there any more. The machine seems to be very versatile and the driven toolholders certainly do add to its versatility. If you haven't already done so, check out Youtube to see for yourself. While the machine seems to be very versatile, you are the only one who can determine if it is right for your purpose.
Whatever machine you decide on, I would recommend that you pay to have a technician from the machine tool manufacturer come and inspect the machine. He would be able to tell you if the spindle bearings are OK and if any other parts need servicing or replacing. He would also likely be able to tell you if the machine was right for your purpose.
It seems that plus or minus half a thousandth (12.7 microns) is a reasonable accuracy to expect with CNC, if you need closer, it may be possible with the right setup or tooling.
Make sure that you have the right post processor for the machine you buy in the CADCAM program you use and that you can tell the CAM portion of the program what machine you have so it knows the axes, etc. that are available when it writes the machine code.
Placing the proper tools in the right stations will also be time consuming initially and documentation of the individual tooling setups is also going to be important so you can get the same setup back again for subsequent runs after the code has been debugged.
Because the machine is complex, you are going to need machine simulation software to prove out the code for new designs for two reasons: First, you don't want to tie up the machine to check the code and second, crashes can get very expensive very quickly. If you crash in the simulator, no physical damage is done, its just "Oops, back to the drawing board." I forgot to mention that the machine simulation software must emulate your machine perfectly to be of any use to you. Don't forget to check that this is so.
There are lots of things to check for in a project like this and I don't pretend to know them all. These are just the ones that I can see. Hope this gives you something to think about. Best of luck.
Richard Trounce.
My CNC eposure is limited to hobby CNC, but I'm a retired engineer so what follows is based on my experience in both areas.
The other day I put "Emcoturn 365/42" in Google and looked at a couple of videos that came up on Youtube. The second one was very impressive as it showed turning a complex part. There were even two hex flats at different points on the part and they were turned using a milling cutter in one of the driven tool holders. That was done while the part was turning so fast that it was just a blur and you couldn't see what was happening until later in the video when the part was stopped.
I checked back today and that particular video doesn't seem to be there any more. The machine seems to be very versatile and the driven toolholders certainly do add to its versatility. If you haven't already done so, check out Youtube to see for yourself. While the machine seems to be very versatile, you are the only one who can determine if it is right for your purpose.
Whatever machine you decide on, I would recommend that you pay to have a technician from the machine tool manufacturer come and inspect the machine. He would be able to tell you if the spindle bearings are OK and if any other parts need servicing or replacing. He would also likely be able to tell you if the machine was right for your purpose.
It seems that plus or minus half a thousandth (12.7 microns) is a reasonable accuracy to expect with CNC, if you need closer, it may be possible with the right setup or tooling.
Make sure that you have the right post processor for the machine you buy in the CADCAM program you use and that you can tell the CAM portion of the program what machine you have so it knows the axes, etc. that are available when it writes the machine code.
Placing the proper tools in the right stations will also be time consuming initially and documentation of the individual tooling setups is also going to be important so you can get the same setup back again for subsequent runs after the code has been debugged.
Because the machine is complex, you are going to need machine simulation software to prove out the code for new designs for two reasons: First, you don't want to tie up the machine to check the code and second, crashes can get very expensive very quickly. If you crash in the simulator, no physical damage is done, its just "Oops, back to the drawing board." I forgot to mention that the machine simulation software must emulate your machine perfectly to be of any use to you. Don't forget to check that this is so.
There are lots of things to check for in a project like this and I don't pretend to know them all. These are just the ones that I can see. Hope this gives you something to think about. Best of luck.
Richard Trounce.
Re: Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Hi RichardRET wrote:Hi,
My CNC eposure is limited to hobby CNC, but I'm a retired engineer so what follows is based on my experience in both areas.
The other day I put "Emcoturn 365/42" in Google and looked at a couple of videos that came up on Youtube. The second one was very impressive as it showed turning a complex part. There were even two hex flats at different points on the part and they were turned using a milling cutter in one of the driven tool holders. That was done while the part was turning so fast that it was just a blur and you couldn't see what was happening until later in the video when the part was stopped.
I checked back today and that particular video doesn't seem to be there any more. The machine seems to be very versatile and the driven toolholders certainly do add to its versatility. If you haven't already done so, check out Youtube to see for yourself. While the machine seems to be very versatile, you are the only one who can determine if it is right for your purpose.
Whatever machine you decide on, I would recommend that you pay to have a technician from the machine tool manufacturer come and inspect the machine. He would be able to tell you if the spindle bearings are OK and if any other parts need servicing or replacing. He would also likely be able to tell you if the machine was right for your purpose.
It seems that plus or minus half a thousandth (12.7 microns) is a reasonable accuracy to expect with CNC, if you need closer, it may be possible with the right setup or tooling.
Make sure that you have the right post processor for the machine you buy in the CADCAM program you use and that you can tell the CAM portion of the program what machine you have so it knows the axes, etc. that are available when it writes the machine code.
Placing the proper tools in the right stations will also be time consuming initially and documentation of the individual tooling setups is also going to be important so you can get the same setup back again for subsequent runs after the code has been debugged.
Because the machine is complex, you are going to need machine simulation software to prove out the code for new designs for two reasons: First, you don't want to tie up the machine to check the code and second, crashes can get very expensive very quickly. If you crash in the simulator, no physical damage is done, its just "Oops, back to the drawing board." I forgot to mention that the machine simulation software must emulate your machine perfectly to be of any use to you. Don't forget to check that this is so.
There are lots of things to check for in a project like this and I don't pretend to know them all. These are just the ones that I can see. Hope this gives you something to think about. Best of luck.
Richard Trounce.
Thank you for the input!
I need all the info I can get my hands on, as I am completely new to CNC. We have also found another machine, a 2001 Okuma Spaceturn LB200 M with OSP-U 100L control which we are considering. As I understand it, this is a solid machine.
What I need to understand better is: If you look at the attachment, this is typically a part we will make. The largest diameter is 155 mm, and the steps are - 10mm. The steps are 3 mm wide. We draw in Solidworks. So: What would you say would be the setuptime for this part? Doing it directly on the machine. And second q: If we were to transfer tge drawing from Sw, I understand we will need a postprosessing programme? When we "load" the part this way, what would the setup time be?
Please feel free to describe the complete process for me, from designed part to the actual cnc machining
Thanks in advance!
Jørgen
- Attachments
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- drum_view_1.pdf
- (100.42 KiB) Downloaded 346 times
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- drum_view_2.pdf
- (121.19 KiB) Downloaded 343 times
Re: Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Hi Jorgen,
As an engineer, I am not competent to answer your questions, because this is not my area of expertise. Through training and experience, each engineer develops an area where they are competent to practice and good engineers know where the limits are. For instance, one engineer may be an expert on tunneling, while another may be an expert on municipal water supply and sewage systems (two of my friends).
For me, CADCAM and machining are lifelong hobbies, but not an engineering vocation. I can't answer the questions you are asking, but if I were in your shoes, I would use the internet to get a good overall view of what is available and then go and talk to both software and machine tool suppliers to learn what I needed and what would suit my application.
As an example, I looked at Solidworks by Dassault industries and it seems that their software doesn't have the ability to generate toolpaths, but there is an add-on from Mastercam called "Mastercam for SOLIDWORKS which can supply the CAM portion that you need in your Solidworks program. Mastercam also has Machine Simulation software to prove out the machine code once the Solidworks-Mastercam combination has generated it. There are demo's on the websites for these programs to give you an idea of what they can do. In particular, Mastercam's machine simulation demo will give you a good idea of what their machine simulation software will do.
Remember, both the software and hardware suppliers are looking for happy customers, so when they realise you are serious, they should be more than willing to talk to you. Just don't expect to become an instant expert; it will take time.
I don't know what all this will cost in money, but I do know its going to take a significant investment in time before all this stuff works the way you want it to.
I use a 3d CADCAM program called Synergy which has the ability to make 3D drawings and generate machine code for the little CNC mill I built; the Synergy program is great for me (I'm still learning how to use it), but it may not do what you are looking for. The picture shows a model nameplate which I drew in Synergy and then Synergy created the machine code to make the part. There were over 900 lines of code to cut all around the letters and numbers. The nameplate is a little more than 26 mm high and about 24 mm wide.
One thing you need to do is to look at the family of parts you are going to make and figure out how you are going to hold each one during the machining process (collets, 3 jaw chucks etc.). That can determine the final accuracy of the finished part. From the youtube video, it looks as if the Emcoturn machine has a rear headstock to hold the part for finish machining to the back of the part and for parting off. That could be necessary for your purpose.
Anyway, you should be able to get where you want to be, but its a long process.
Richard Trounce.
As an engineer, I am not competent to answer your questions, because this is not my area of expertise. Through training and experience, each engineer develops an area where they are competent to practice and good engineers know where the limits are. For instance, one engineer may be an expert on tunneling, while another may be an expert on municipal water supply and sewage systems (two of my friends).
For me, CADCAM and machining are lifelong hobbies, but not an engineering vocation. I can't answer the questions you are asking, but if I were in your shoes, I would use the internet to get a good overall view of what is available and then go and talk to both software and machine tool suppliers to learn what I needed and what would suit my application.
As an example, I looked at Solidworks by Dassault industries and it seems that their software doesn't have the ability to generate toolpaths, but there is an add-on from Mastercam called "Mastercam for SOLIDWORKS which can supply the CAM portion that you need in your Solidworks program. Mastercam also has Machine Simulation software to prove out the machine code once the Solidworks-Mastercam combination has generated it. There are demo's on the websites for these programs to give you an idea of what they can do. In particular, Mastercam's machine simulation demo will give you a good idea of what their machine simulation software will do.
Remember, both the software and hardware suppliers are looking for happy customers, so when they realise you are serious, they should be more than willing to talk to you. Just don't expect to become an instant expert; it will take time.
I don't know what all this will cost in money, but I do know its going to take a significant investment in time before all this stuff works the way you want it to.
I use a 3d CADCAM program called Synergy which has the ability to make 3D drawings and generate machine code for the little CNC mill I built; the Synergy program is great for me (I'm still learning how to use it), but it may not do what you are looking for. The picture shows a model nameplate which I drew in Synergy and then Synergy created the machine code to make the part. There were over 900 lines of code to cut all around the letters and numbers. The nameplate is a little more than 26 mm high and about 24 mm wide.
One thing you need to do is to look at the family of parts you are going to make and figure out how you are going to hold each one during the machining process (collets, 3 jaw chucks etc.). That can determine the final accuracy of the finished part. From the youtube video, it looks as if the Emcoturn machine has a rear headstock to hold the part for finish machining to the back of the part and for parting off. That could be necessary for your purpose.
Anyway, you should be able to get where you want to be, but its a long process.
Richard Trounce.
- Attachments
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- Big Boy shield created with CNC mill.
Re: Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Hi Richard!
I am constantly seeking information these days, and will check mastercam as you said.
I`m aware of the fact that this will be timeconsuming to learn, but as I enjoy machining so much as I do, it all gets a bit easier
"Over 900 lines.." Jeez...
Once again; thanks!
Jørgen
I am constantly seeking information these days, and will check mastercam as you said.
I`m aware of the fact that this will be timeconsuming to learn, but as I enjoy machining so much as I do, it all gets a bit easier
"Over 900 lines.." Jeez...
Once again; thanks!
Jørgen
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Bill Shields
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Re: Emcoturn 365/42 for us?
Siemens 840D from 1997? It must be a VERY EARLY 840D
Emco makes good machine (mechanically), but they can be very finicky to program....especially with a CADCAM system that does not specialize in this particular 'flavor' of machines.
You have to 'think Emco' and really understand what is going on. It is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLANET than programming a Fanuc of any flavor.
Caution: There is little service for these machines in the USA...so if it goes down, it might be very $$$ to fix.
Is it a good machine for you? Tough to tell, but if it were my $$$, I would look elsewhere.
The Okuma is also a good machine.....however without a Y-Axis is a real drawback for a turn-mill.
Emco makes good machine (mechanically), but they can be very finicky to program....especially with a CADCAM system that does not specialize in this particular 'flavor' of machines.
You have to 'think Emco' and really understand what is going on. It is an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PLANET than programming a Fanuc of any flavor.
Caution: There is little service for these machines in the USA...so if it goes down, it might be very $$$ to fix.
Is it a good machine for you? Tough to tell, but if it were my $$$, I would look elsewhere.
The Okuma is also a good machine.....however without a Y-Axis is a real drawback for a turn-mill.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.