The Home Machinist!

Hi guys,

Well, I finally stuck my neck out on a small "learners" 3-axis CNC mill. It's a D & M 4 3-Axis Enclosed Desktop Mill. $400 was pretty hard to pass up with 14 days money back guarantee but there is a problem that's better explained on the eBay description than I could do and there's pic's as well.

Please look at eBay Item number: 330168583165

I'd sure appreciate it if Bill or any of the other fellows that are CNC wiz's could give me some advise on where I'd be best to start the troubleshooting process based on the comments on the eBay page. I'm assuming I could even have to replace everything behind the steppers but sure hoping not.

My objective is to set up with Mach 3 and begin with the wizards and one of those $79 Shuttle Pro pendants that Artsoft has written a plug-in for to provide for quasi manual mode that I can use if needed early on as I know absolutely "0" about CNC milling (and not much more about manual yet )

If any of you have one of these it sure would be great to hear your thoughts on them as well.

Thanks kindly,
Gerry

_________________
A Legend in His Own Mind

Gerry,
this appears to be a CNC'd Sherline model 5000 mill with a custom
(D&M) teaching/safety enclosure surround.
I suspect that being a 1990's vintage and the round case motors
they are unipolar steppers. All the electronics is unique to that age.
Without a closer look and troubleshooting, the power up problem
can't be guessed at.
If the problem proves to be diffult to cure ($$$), a change to modern
drivers, etc would be more cost effective.
I have a home converted Sherline 5400 mill running daily using
the CNCPro control program on a laptop PC, very successfully.
Rich Dean, Atlanta

Hi Rich,

Thanks for the feedback. The direction I'm leaning right now is to go ahead and gut the electronics behind the steppers and update to a Windows/Mach3 compatible setup. This seems to be the least risky approach, especially considering that I have no background in electronics and my priorities don't lie there at this time - not meaning that in any negative way.

The reason for Mach3 is primary because of its wide acceptance and growing wizard capability. Because my machining needs are quite simple at this time but time is very important, I'd rather stat away from programming any G code at least until I've got my currently needed "parts" set up as repeatable, even if it is in very small numbers. It's more an issue of error prevention than volume in my case (prototyping and a few demo units). And, the fully functional (max. 60 parts per assembly) demo vesion of Mach is Free.
See: http://www.machsupport.com

There is also a $50 plug-in wizard called Mach3 Add-Ons for Mill which, when combined with Mach3, amounts to $195.
See: http://www.newfangledsolutions.com/prod_mill_addons.htm

The most obvious retrofit package appears to be the Xylotex kits, which include everything (except the computer) up to the existing steppers for $205 (3-axis) or $235 (4-axis). I don't see an enclsure being needed as the existing system already has one. I'm not so sure these offer the ability to control motor speed or limit switches though so I could sure use some advise in this area of concern. There are, no doubt, better ways but cost is very much an issue for me.
See: http://www.xylotex.com/4AxWPS.htm

Older computers, even running Windows seem to be a dime a dozen these days so I'm not too worried about that but should look into which of the usual issues of more memory, higher processor speed, math coprocessor are important for CAM.

My experience with drawing software is limited to Adobe Illustrator (2D). I've tinkered VERY briefly with a couple of 3D programs at times but was frankly somewhat overwhelmed. Therefore, I'm considering a program called CoCreate OneSpace Modelling. The Personal Edition is free and fully functional and appears to follow the Mach3 philosophy of keeping things as simple as possible.
See: http://www.cocreate.com/products/Modeli ... rview.aspx

I'm probably missing some things here (which I hope will get pointed out to me) but this would suggest I could have an up-to-date, user-friendly, upgradeable, enclosed tabletop CAD/CAM/CNC milling system using Sherline parts and accessories on the mechanical end for $400 (system as purchased) + $150 (shipping estim.) + $235 (electronics kit retrofit) + $195 software = $980 with many key parts being on warranty and tech support available. OR $830 if I start with the demo version of Mach.

Am I all wet on this???

Anyone else want to jump in as well, keeping in mind that my priority is to have an easy to use "learner's" setup, up and running ASAP with little or no need to learn/develop electronics skills and program writing.

Oh yes, the system I bought on eBay is Item number: 330168583165. It shows a number of pictures (not very good ones) and provides some information on a startup issue with the device - hence the $403 winning bid. This might get you there directly: http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... :IT&ih=014

Thanks kindly,
Gerry

_________________
A Legend in His Own Mind

Gerry,
the Xylotex drivers and PS are a good choice and only need a cabinet.
This will get the machine ready for the controller PC.
While the Mach3, etc is ok, this needs a modern PC to run.
I don't know how you will connect the driver to it without a parallel port.
You want something cheap?
Get an older Laptop (Dell Latitude L or LS400 or Inspiron) makes a
nice compact controller PC running Win98SE and a free copy of CNCPro
(DOS) control program. These have the par port and USB.
Use a new PC for all the CAD and CAM work and transfer to the laptop
via flash drive to run the part off.
I do this everyday. Slick and compact.
Rich (Sherline 5400 & Dyna Myte 2400)

Thanks Rich,

Keeping in mind I'm totally green here,
1. Does CNC Pro require any knowledge of DOS - I've never worked with DOS and trying to learn it would be impractical for me.
2. Is it an alternative to Mach3 and if yes, does it offer the same ease of learning. E.g. wizards to minimize the need to write G code.

A number of people have told be not to worry, it's easy to learn but, unfortunately that's assuming no learning disability- I handle visual information much better. Don't worry about being shy in that regard, I suspect I'm not the only guy with that kind of injury hanging out on these boards!

Thanks much,
Gerry

_________________
A Legend in His Own Mind

Gerry,
DOS is very easy to learn. There are only a few commands used
frequently.
However, with CNCro installed via windows, the normal operation
is thusly:
Boot controller PC to windows. (Can be the primary PC as well)
Attach flash drive (or floppy) to Xfer G-Code files from CAD/CAM PC.
Windows Explorer (not IE) is always kept open for quick access.
Dbl clik on CNCPro desktop icon to auto-quit windows and auto-open
CNCPro. You never see the DOS prompt, etc.
Run program, machine parts, etc.
Quit CNCPro which auto-starts windows back to desktop.
All this back and forth win to DOS only takes seconds while you are
setting parts, returning the flash drive, etc. No bother at all.
CNCPro is a fine low cost (free) controller does an excellent job and
is very easy to use. The position readout and jog keys are all user
friendly. Feedrates can be changed on the fly.
I can show you my setups in pics if you want.
Rich, Atlanta cmsteam(at)speedfactory(dot)net
770---921---9691

I ran one of those when I was in highschool (could be a different model but it looks pretty close and it was definitely a D&M). It ran DOS and was pretty easy to run. Neat little machine iirc it ran an unusual flavor of g-code but with the right post processor it shouldn't be a problem to run. It has been a little to long since I used it to be of much help though.

Good luck!

~GearGeek

Gerald;

The Xylotex board would be a simple effective way to get your machine up and running. All you need is a DC power supply and the Xylotex board. Connect the steppers and you are ready.

Mach3 software is wonderful. I have personaly met and spoke to the man that wrote the Mach3 sofware at the CNC Workshop in Galesburg IL, last June. But, nothing wrong with TurboCNC. It runs in DOS. I'm comfortable with Turbocnc and it seems to makes me money so I'm reluctant to change. Us old guys are like that. Don't worry about learning DOS. You only need to do one or two DOS comands to load the sofware. DOS sofware is easy to run. TurboCNC runs without using the mouse. If you can imagine anything so primative. As long as my old Windows98 laptops keep running, I'll likely keep running Turbocnc. Maybe on the next retrofit.

Below is the my first CNC controller. The Xylotex board is in the lower/left side of the cabinet. The 24VDC power supply is upper/left.

Jim

_________________
Tool & Die Maker/Electrician, Retired 2007

So much to learn and so little time.

www.outbackmachineshop.com

I believe that I have a post processor and MAYBE a programming manual floating around for one of these things.....but cannot swear to it.

If it isn't running and you are going to change the electronics, then that's a moot point.

Good luck with your project....it is very doable....

Thanks much Bill, As soon as I get it and do an initial evaluation (e.g. see if a couple of my more knowledgeable electronics buddies can either fire it up or find out why it won't) I fill you in.

As an aside, I think I'm losing it - very early this morning I out rushed a line-up and bought a small Hardinge turret lathe for $200 just because of the name and cabinet full of collets - I could just barely see it in the dark in the barn! What's the expession - "Fools Rush In"?

But, the CNC is the priority. The hardinge is my winter rust removal project!

Ciao,
Gerry

_________________
A Legend in His Own Mind

Hey Jerry did it come with any disks?

Hi ZipSnipe,

Unfortunately, no disks, manuals, schematics, etc.

Also, it came with the front-end stuff (mill & steppers) partly disassembled with the nut & bolts and small bits all in a plastic bag - but no notes or pics. Hope there was nothing missing as it will be harder to tell. It's a Sherline mill with 5-wire steppers (I believe that's unipolar). It also arrived with a different, partly broken mill motor (a non-Sherline one) than the one pictured on eBay so I'm not sure what to think of that.

What I'm thinking of doing is first find someone locally who can test the various electronics so that I know what I'm dealing with then upgrade it right away to be able to run under Mach 3. I have no idea at this point but hopefully, that won't mean having to change everything in back. It would be really nice if it was as simple as installing a Xylotex controller that would be compatible with the older stuff as well as Mach 3.

Got any thoughts or advice?

- Gerry

_________________
A Legend in His Own Mind