G4003G Conversion

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Dave_C
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G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

All,

I own a Grizzly G4003G lathe since 2008. I saw a conversion that Brian Tilden finished http://btilden.com/ and would like to do something like it.

He did a nice job and I have been in contact with him for a parts list. He was very helpfull and I have made a spreadsheet with all the parts and cost. I've been playing with Mach3 turn and running it through some of the wizards. I looks like some don't work properly until I buy the licenses. Does anyone know if that is the case?

Also, any feedback before I start.

Main questions are related to the Ballscrews and how accurate (expensive) do I need given that Mach3 will do ballscrew mapping?

I plan on something along these lines:

Mach3 software, GS2 drive from Hitachi (1Ph in 3Ph out), 2hp 3 phase motor from Lesson Electric, 1,200 oz in Hybrid servos (just steppers with feedback) Ethernet Smooth Stepper, CM-106 Breakout board, Maybe Raton ball screws or rockford. Then there are lots of things like belts from Polybelt.com, timming pulleys, limit switches, ball screw ends, electronics enclosure and power supplies.

Totals just a little under $3,000

This would be a winter project if I decide to go ahead.

I'm listening,

Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Rex
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Rex »

Very good website, thanks for the link.
Makes it look easy.
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

Yes, he makes it look easy but as I looked more into this work, I discovered that he has two lathes!

You need to turn and complete the ends of the ball screws before you dismantle your existing machine (or have a good friend with one close by) else you will have to buy them with the ends finished. (more money)

I've downloaded all the support data for the electronics and Mach 3 turn. Right now I am reading through all the installation instructions and set up instructions to see if I can do everything that is required. I've been reading for a couple of weeks, and so far have not come across anything all that hard. It seemed quite strange at first but as you read on document and then the next, it all starts to make sense.

IF I actually do this (and this is a big if) I will post a build log for all to follow if they wish.

It really has come down to one thing. Ball screws! Rolled or precision ground? Rolled is much less expensive (Roton) but is the .002" error per foot acceptable? (.001" if you buy rockford)

Then how accurate can a person afford to purchase for hobby work. (some not so hobby related).

That is the question.

Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

So as to not leave you all hanging,

I removed the origianl post saying I was abandoning the project since it is back on!

This will be a rather lengthy project so be patient. I will take pics as I go and most likely will put up some video under DRDAVOCHP on youtube.

I made the first part today! This is the spindle index disk. It only has one slot! I have seen this is not well understood by some who are using Mach 3. As I understand it, one index slot is all that is needed for threading. If you only use one slot, make sure you set it up under ports and pins using the "Index" input. If you want to use 4 slots, set up under ports and pins to "Timming" input and make sure one slot is twice the width of the other three. Mach 3 still needs to know where TDC is so to speak.

This pic is for a G4003G and it is worth mentioning that you only have .625" to work with on width to clear the cover. Also make sure you make the disk bigger than the bearing hub so your electronics can see the slot.

I'll have more as I get parts in. Lead time is long on the electronics so it will be 4 weeks or more.

Let the fun began!

Dave C.
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Spindle Index Wheel
Spindle Index Wheel
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

I've been ask to post a parts list as I go and then maybe a recap at the end. Some of these parts are single source so I'll also include where I purchased them. No personal connection to any of these sources so buy at your own risk!

1. Mach 3 software and licenses, prices vary from $149.00 to $175.00.
2. Ethernet Smooth Stepper AKA, ESS will by from CNC4PC.com for about $200 plus $32 shipping from Korea
3. Break out board. There are many versions that will work work with Mach 3 but I like the CM126 the best. Reason: The CM106 has fewer Inputs but has 4 VOC (Voltage Open Collectors) and I don't need the VOC's. With the CM126 I have 18 inputs, 7 relay ouputs and a 0-10v output for spindle speed. That gives a lot of flexability for limits, home switches and custom push buttons for whatever you like.
4. Steppers will be 1260 oz/in hybrid steppers. Hybrid means the steppers have feedback encoders so they do not lose steps. $490.00 each from CNC4PC.com and that includes the stepper drive for this motor. These drivers will reduce the load to keep from stalling if you overload them rather than lose steps.
5. Power Supply is Model #PS7220 from same source. 72 volt 20 amp power supply.
6. Motor does not have to be changed out and you can run it manually but I will change mine out to a 2 HP 3 Ph Motor-Leeson192205/D90L at a cost of $208.00 and up depending on where you buy it. I'm looking at Electric Motor Wholesale.com!
7. VFD will be a Hitachi VFD GS2 GS222PO @ $251.00 from Automationdirect.com

This is the bulk of the electronics. I still need the limit switches, spindle sensor and lots of misc stuff.

Ball screws will come later, much later.

Warning: Anyone wishing to tackle on of these conversions needs to take a close look at the space available under the cross slide. This is the hardest part of the conversion as there are some very tight restriction for installing the ballnut and screw. It can be done and I'll post pics when I get to that part.

Dave C.
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Marty_Escarcega »

I look forward to following your build!
"Jack of all Trades, Master of None"
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

Greetings CNC Fans,

I received my Ethernet Smooth Stepper and my CM-126 Break Out Board today. As you can see from the pics, the Break Out Board got shipped without the wire connector plugs. They are in transit from Korea! Duh

Given the large number of I/O on the Breakout board, I thought it would be larger. As you can see from my finger in the picture it is about 4 1/2" by 3 1/2" and the ESS mounts right on top of the breakout board. The ESS gets its 5 volt DC power right from the Breakout board. (Just mount the two jumpers on the pins for Port 1 and Port 2) Port 3 is not used for this breakout board but could be used for more I/O if needed.

I had made some notes on the terminal page and had already set up the ports and pins in Mach 3. I had most of it right but since no wires are actually hooked up I had to reverse some of the "Active Hi and Active Low" settings to clear limit alarms and estop conditions.

I really like the Diagnostic screen in Mach 3. You can correct any N/O or N/C issues just by looking at the diagnostic LED's on the screen.

I'll be using all Normally closed X and Z limit switches. There are two reasons for that. #1 is for safety! If a wire breaks on a limit I want the machine to stop verses having a broken wire and then hitting a limit that does not work. #2 I will only have two switches on each axis and will wire them in series. Hitting either end of the travel will give a "Limit Hit" message and the machine will stop. I'll have a momentary push switch to let me back off the limit when this happens. (Notice I said when, not if. LOL)

If you plan on doing one of these. Download all the support documents and read them all the way through first. Then read them again until you understand the terms and have a general idea what is going on. The documents are actually pretty good!

Right now I have the Ethernet Smooth Stepper and the Breakout Board all set up, drivers installed and ports and pins set.

Next step is to do testing with the Hybrid Stepper Motors when they come. I think we are a month away as they are on back order until late December of 2013.

Here are a couple of picures. You may not be able to read my notes (Guess how I got the nickname DrDavo?) [no one could read my handwritting either]

I'll be back when I get more parts in.

Dave C.
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Ethernet Smooth Stepper and BO Board
Ethernet Smooth Stepper and BO Board
My Notes and the Terminal Drawing Page
My Notes and the Terminal Drawing Page
I learn something new every day! Problem is I forget two.
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

The Hybrid Steppers came in this week. Power Supply is still on back order but I was able to use the 8 Amp 24 VDC PS on the bench and test one motor at a time.

As you can see, the wiring is just temporary but it works just fine for testing.

I did all the caculations for the ball screw pitch, pulley ratio and micro steps per revolution and came up with 10,000 steps per inch. Nice number as that gives me .0001" of a turn per step. But in reality (I was working on th X axis) when I did a jog of 1" I only got 2 1/2 turns of the motor instead of 5. I thought I was going nuts until my friend emailed me back and said "You have your settings set up for diameter don't you". And yes I did so the X axis moves .500" to reduce the diameter 1.000". 1/2 as many steps is the correct amount!

Funny how your brain just stop working when you get into strange territory!

Z axis is 1/1 but it is a 4 pitch ball screw instead of the 5 pitch on the X axis. So I'll have 8,000 steps per inch on the Z.

I'm really please at the speed and accuracy of these motors. 300 IPM rapids would be no problem at all but I'll most likely keep them down around 150 at least until I find a need to go higher. I might even go lower while I am learning for safety sake. It is real easy to change the speed anytime I want so no point in starting out faster than I can think. (Ok, maybe 30 IPM) :lol:

Dave C.
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The two new Hybrid Steppers
The two new Hybrid Steppers
Showing the Temp wiring layout
Showing the Temp wiring layout
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

I finished the Spindle Index mount today.

This is not a complicated part but one that needs to hold the sensor correctly. This is just a piece of rectangle tubing left over from my DRO installation. It was already painted black and I just made a 1/2" piece of aluminum to press into the lower end. I cut a .250" wide slot abut .060" deep and about .980" long to fit the sensor. Then I drilled a hole for the cable, added the two 4-40 screws and one set screw adjacent to the cover bolt to hold it in place.

The advantage here is that I can losed the large set screw and remove the bracket, tilt it, inspect the sensor or realign it very quickly.

My cover bolt was very close to a perfect 90 degrees and is very tight so it made a good mounting place for the sensor.

I found a little "wall wart" to power it and tested it out. It sends a pulse when it passes the slot and not vice versa. The electonics can do it either way but Mach 3 works better when the short pulse represents the slot and not the disk. Has to do with pulse durration which is what makes the wave form. The peak of the wave form should be the pulse of the slot!

Over kill, maybe, but it is not likely to give me any trouble any time soon.

Dave C.
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End View
End View
Another End View
Another End View
Gap Spacing
Gap Spacing
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Dave_C
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Dave_C »

Update:

I have been working on the electronics. Here are two pics of the parts mounted on the backplane.

Dave C.
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Front View
Front View
Side View
Side View
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ctwo
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by ctwo »

ensure the cooling fins stand vertical for better passive airflow, I mean the slots vertical...
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Marty_Escarcega
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Re: G4003G Conversion

Post by Marty_Escarcega »

Looking good.....
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