I have used lathes with power feed... CNC good/bad?

[BassVape]

I have been handy with equipment ever since I was a little guy. I was a Cabinet maker, apprentice tool maker/machinist, even studied engineering.... Ended up with a degree in Chemistry and now I am a full time musician. I want to make some specific parts and not to difficult to begin with, but what happens when I want/need to make 50 or 500?

I look at pictures of Small, micro CNC mills and Lathes, and it looks as if it's one or the other. Full manual control or program code.... I've never done(if i did it was press program 1 execute).

I am going to be working with Al, CU(101), and maybe some alloys of the two mixed. oh and SS.

I have looked at what standard stock is out there and I'm going to have to either get solid rod or materials that are going to need a ton of cutting to size. This is kinda a side business that could make me some money, a ton of it, or just pass the time when I'm not traveling.

Any suggestions? I have a budget of maybe $4000.00 and I would like to be able to make all kinds of odds and ends, but if i stick to a manual machine I may collapse b4 I see any progress.

How hard is the transition, and I think many hobbyists find this negative but the metric system doesn't scare me. copper threads on pure copper in a hurry scare me.

thanks for any help
RJ

[Will's 2882]

You may be able to find used machines to do the job with $4000.
How big are the parts you want to make? Larger machines cost more, but can make large and small parts.
With the types of material you talked about you will need strong machines, not toys.
You may want to have castings made up to reduce the amount of machining time.
Good luck making tons of money.

[hanermo]

Its perfectly feasible to make one for the budget (with some work and compromises).
No-one makes anything remotely usable for actually making parts in that price range.

A toolchanger is an absolute must for producing parts.
My 4-tool changer for small lathes is 500€ cost, my own import.
My bigger one, 8 tools (70 kg mass) is 2000€.

You need a *good* motion control solution with high resolution, and high speed.
The only proper one, at this time, is the csmio (for mach3/mach4).
All out, its 1000€ cost with threading.

You can get so-so solutions, that almost work, for 1/3 the money.
I have about 30 different combos of mostly useless kit of this type.

After the csmio motion control board, 2 ac servos (750€ total), and a toolchanger you just need a donor lathe.
A perfectly usable one can be built from anything, add about 900€ for two thick ballscrews (30-40 mm thick) and bits and bobs.
The ballscrews are optional, at first.

All the above is the real deal, for actually producing stuff.
For much less money you can get rinky-dinky stuff with endless problems, weaknesses, and dependencies that keep you from making parts.

4 tools is too little, but will get you started.
You can add another one at back, for total 8.

A donor lathe is 200-900€, heavier is better.
A small old industrial capstan lathe=turret lathe can be gotten in this price range.
As long as the spindle turns and bearings are good, everything else is easily fixed.

I make stuff on a 350 kg 12", and that would be a minimum mass for actually making stuff.
Mine is a light-industrial short-bed version 12x24.

[toddalin]

That's about the cost of a used ShopMaster with CNC and DRO that does manual, power feed, and CNC. But of course there is that Chinese "quality" to deal with.

Fine for one offs, but not what you want for mass production.

Mine is a generation after this one that has a longer X-axis.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shopmaster-Eldo ... 1e8a5caf35

[BassVape]

http://www.microproto.com/

I'm going to run small numbers. 50 at most, 3-5 parts.
2" or smaller in diameter
4x4 blocks of 6160 maybe?

Any thoughts?

[Harold_V]

http://www.microproto.com/

I'm going to run small numbers. 50 at most, 3-5 parts.
2" or smaller in diameter
4x4 blocks of 6160 maybe?

Any thoughts?

You would be well served to spend a little time in a shop where parts are made, so you get an idea of how metal is removed. Your plan may or may not be reasonable, so until you have a better understanding, you'd be best served by not making any decisions until you're better informed.

Plain and simple. A 4" block of 6000 series steel is well beyond the capabilities of such a small machine. That's not to say it can't do the job---but how many days are you willing to watch a machine scratch away at metal? Desk top machines are notoriously underpowered and lack the desired rigidity to perform such a task.

You'd have to disclose a lot more information than you have in order for anyone to provide reasonable guidance, but right now, I'd suggest to you that you are looking at the wrong equipment. You're looking at a ½ ton pickup when what you may really need is an 18 wheeler, or something slightly smaller.

I see that you're a musician. I've tried playing a few instruments, and have discovered I do very best with the stereo. I love music, but don't seem to be able to "make" music. I don't understand the rules of music, and I don't seem to have the talent it takes, in spite of the fact that I listen to jazz and classical, both of which are very demanding of talent. I'm using this as a way to suggest to you that you may not have what it takes to machine. What you're going to discover quickly is that there is a huge difference between making chips and making parts.

I'll be following this thread with considerable interest. I think what you proposed can work, but it may not work the way you think it can.

Harold

[BassVape]

I worked in a machine shop for 2 years. I also have also used mills and lathes many times thru the ages.

Mainly I will be working with copper. Aluminum and brass.

The most difficult cut i will have to do would be a center bore cut at 18.5mm for aprox 80mm.

Do you really think that this is beyond the abilities of this machine?

I liked this idea due to the ability to add CNC capability.

I'm not sure i trust a Chinese machine, and I don't have the room available to get a used full size mill and lathe(yes this would be ideal).

I also have worked with aluminum, and tool steel. So i understand what you are saying.
Please don't let the "I'm a musician". Be my label. I have a degree in chemistry. I was a Cabinet maker, welder, and know just enough to get myself in some serious trouble. So help!

Thankyou for everything you have let me know. I am just looking for options and advise. If I had $$ I'd drive down the street to haus(spelling?) and goto town, but I don't and what I want to accomplish is somewhat time sensitive.

I am sorry for my infrequent checks to the forum. I will do my best to get back here much more often, I have been busy making the money to purchase the equipment.

And i do really heed your advise as that is now off my list. But I know there are others.


Thanks
RJ

[BassVape]

http://www.microproto.com/

I'm going to run small numbers. 50 at most, 3-5 parts.
2" or smaller in diameter
4x4 blocks of 6160 maybe?

Any thoughts?

You would be well served to spend a little time in a shop where parts are made, so you get an idea of how metal is removed. Your plan may or may not be reasonable, so until you have a better understanding, you'd be best served by not making any decisions until you're better informed.

Plain and simple. A 4" block of 6000 series steel is well beyond the capabilities of such a small machine. That's not to say it can't do the job---but how many days are you willing to watch a machine scratch away at metal? Desk top machines are notoriously underpowered and lack the desired rigidity to perform such a task.

And thats my bad i should have been sure but I thought that was the number for aluminum. I really don't want to work with steel. I think the only place i will use it would be for a set of threads. Because copper vs. SS threads to someone who doesn't know better would most likely be destroyed.