Hi all,
Could some one give some pointers on the use of slitting saws please.
I have looked through the books I have, bradley, sparey etc
but no detailed stuff.
I have a toolmaster vertical mill vari speed head 40 int taper
should you climb mill or not? feeds, speeds?
I tried to slit a job today and the saw sounds wrong but then I dont know what it is supposed to run like !
Many thanks
Lee.
advice on slitting saws
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GadgetBuilder
- Posts: 139
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:34 pm
- Location: Newtown, CT
SteveM's advice is key - running too fast in steel will dull or ruin the blade very quickly. I run 3" saws at the lowest speed of my mill, 120 RPM. Lots of oil on the blade helps keep heat down. Modest, steady feed. Finish is better than that produced by most other methods on the mill.
With all the oil and the small chips, the gullets often fill with chips held in place by the oil. I swipe a chip brush across the running blade in an area away from the work to knock the chips out of the gullets.
The saw makes a droning sound in operation. Saws seldom seem to be precisely centered so the drone usually rises and fall with each revolution - I have only one blade that doesn't do this.
Don't attempt a deep cut in one pass, especially with a thin blade - the blade will track off to one side and break (unless it is a side cutting blade). Make an initial pass about the depth of the teeth to establish the cut; the next pass can be much deeper because the blade will tend to follow the path of least resistance (the initial cut). Still, if the blade is 1/16 or less, be alert for the blade going off the line. I avoid climb milling with saws but I generally use climb milling infrequently except for improving finish and the finish produced by a saw would be hard to improve...
Blades can be touched up with a slipstone fairly easily so with a bit of effort they cut well for a long time.
John
With all the oil and the small chips, the gullets often fill with chips held in place by the oil. I swipe a chip brush across the running blade in an area away from the work to knock the chips out of the gullets.
The saw makes a droning sound in operation. Saws seldom seem to be precisely centered so the drone usually rises and fall with each revolution - I have only one blade that doesn't do this.
Don't attempt a deep cut in one pass, especially with a thin blade - the blade will track off to one side and break (unless it is a side cutting blade). Make an initial pass about the depth of the teeth to establish the cut; the next pass can be much deeper because the blade will tend to follow the path of least resistance (the initial cut). Still, if the blade is 1/16 or less, be alert for the blade going off the line. I avoid climb milling with saws but I generally use climb milling infrequently except for improving finish and the finish produced by a saw would be hard to improve...
Blades can be touched up with a slipstone fairly easily so with a bit of effort they cut well for a long time.
John
Last edited by GadgetBuilder on Sat Aug 18, 2007 7:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
what dia, thickness, speed and material? like Steve says, check your speed. its normal for them to run slightly eccentric, so they'll only be cutting on few teeth. because of this, toss out the window any feed per teeth calcs. they are very fragile tools and can snap easily, I use a lot of care and hand feed - you can sense when you're pushing it this way. the other thing is don't use a key on your arbor, maybe it'll slip then instead of snap if it grabs
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Bill Shields
Saw...
I run my mill at absolute lowest speed, and that often is a bit too fast.
One other important thing to worry about...be ABSOLUTELY SURE that the head is square to the travel of the saw, otherwise the saw can cut up / down hill and eventually snap off...depending on the depth of cut.
One other important thing to worry about...be ABSOLUTELY SURE that the head is square to the travel of the saw, otherwise the saw can cut up / down hill and eventually snap off...depending on the depth of cut.
Very good subject.
I'm looking at buying some slitting blades but need to know what ARBOR do you use to hold them?
Most of the ones that I see have a round hole & no key insert such as on a direct drive inboard propshaft.
Rock & Roll.
Jamie
I'm looking at buying some slitting blades but need to know what ARBOR do you use to hold them?
Most of the ones that I see have a round hole & no key insert such as on a direct drive inboard propshaft.
Rock & Roll.
Jamie
You never know what your faith is until your faith has truely been tested.
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Bill Shields
Arbors
Are like trees...many to choose from.
Some have big nuts on the back side, handle keys and are for very heavy duty work...but because of the large tightening system, cannot get close to the fixturing. I use these more often in a horizontal spindle than vertical...
Others are much smaller and lighter weight, and depend on bolt tension (squeeze) to keep things tight.
I have and use both. The heavy duty one is generally used on the much thicker saws (no generally called 'slitting' or 'jewelers'...
AVOID the MULTI-DIAMETER junkies that have several 'steps' to hold many different arbor-size saws...they NEVER run true and are nothing but trouble. I keep one around in the shop as a good example of a bad idea to be avoided.
Typically, a 1" arbor will handle 99% of the work you are likely to encounter in the general realm of 'slitting'.
If you put enough load on the slitting saw to cause it to slip on the arbor...you are most likely feeding to fast anyway, and need to back off.
Some have big nuts on the back side, handle keys and are for very heavy duty work...but because of the large tightening system, cannot get close to the fixturing. I use these more often in a horizontal spindle than vertical...
Others are much smaller and lighter weight, and depend on bolt tension (squeeze) to keep things tight.
I have and use both. The heavy duty one is generally used on the much thicker saws (no generally called 'slitting' or 'jewelers'...
AVOID the MULTI-DIAMETER junkies that have several 'steps' to hold many different arbor-size saws...they NEVER run true and are nothing but trouble. I keep one around in the shop as a good example of a bad idea to be avoided.
Typically, a 1" arbor will handle 99% of the work you are likely to encounter in the general realm of 'slitting'.
If you put enough load on the slitting saw to cause it to slip on the arbor...you are most likely feeding to fast anyway, and need to back off.
Thanks for the speedy replies,
The arbour I have does have a 1" stub to mount the saws on and it'll take quite a thick saw / side & face cutter.
I was aware of the dia v speed issue and ran the saw at a slower speed.
Good point about the head being square on, I'll double check.
I have a wheel thing (surface speed) I can put on a rotating component, reads in sfpm 5" saw 3/32" thick running at 80'/ min, hand fed, ( the largest saw i have is a 7" dia)
I thought the saw had a high tooth but from the other post this seems normal, I've had the saw in a jig on the t&c but no highs or lows.
how come some saws in catalougs have very fine teeth some coarse?
fine for hard coarse for soft?
or is depth of cut?
I've though about slitting to remove large pieces of stock is this normal practice ?
many thanks
Lee.
The arbour I have does have a 1" stub to mount the saws on and it'll take quite a thick saw / side & face cutter.
I was aware of the dia v speed issue and ran the saw at a slower speed.
Good point about the head being square on, I'll double check.
I have a wheel thing (surface speed) I can put on a rotating component, reads in sfpm 5" saw 3/32" thick running at 80'/ min, hand fed, ( the largest saw i have is a 7" dia)
I thought the saw had a high tooth but from the other post this seems normal, I've had the saw in a jig on the t&c but no highs or lows.
how come some saws in catalougs have very fine teeth some coarse?
fine for hard coarse for soft?
or is depth of cut?
I've though about slitting to remove large pieces of stock is this normal practice ?
many thanks
Lee.
The ones with "big nuts" (sometimes with keys) are called "stub arbors". I prefer them if I have room. Particularly useful if your actually using a standard "mill" (as opposed to "end mill") rather than a real slitting saw.
The smaller true "slitting saw" arbors have a much smaller dead zone and often tighten with a SHCS and only stand about 1/4" proud of the saw blade. These sometimes offer provision for a key, but often do not.
Tooth pitch is for different materials. For instance, carbon steel has a fine tooth, aluminum much more coarse for chip removal. Tooth pitch controls feed rate which is calculated in load per tooth.
When using a slitting saw, always make a first pass cut not to exceed the depth of the teeth. This helps guide the saw from wandering when cutting deeper. I often make multiple passes on a deep cut to clear chips.
Use of a saw is the fastest "removal rate" in the shop (excluding O/A or plasma) for certain bulk operations. It also often leaves you with usable material for another job rather than a pile of chips. So yeah, I use the band saw or otherwise as much as reasonable and useful...
I've got and use both.
The smaller true "slitting saw" arbors have a much smaller dead zone and often tighten with a SHCS and only stand about 1/4" proud of the saw blade. These sometimes offer provision for a key, but often do not.
Tooth pitch is for different materials. For instance, carbon steel has a fine tooth, aluminum much more coarse for chip removal. Tooth pitch controls feed rate which is calculated in load per tooth.
When using a slitting saw, always make a first pass cut not to exceed the depth of the teeth. This helps guide the saw from wandering when cutting deeper. I often make multiple passes on a deep cut to clear chips.
Use of a saw is the fastest "removal rate" in the shop (excluding O/A or plasma) for certain bulk operations. It also often leaves you with usable material for another job rather than a pile of chips. So yeah, I use the band saw or otherwise as much as reasonable and useful...
I've got and use both.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
No idea on metric, but using the terms I gave will yield results on www.use-enco.com
And no, you can't use a bolt/stud with nuts; but you can make your own using a lathe...
And no, you can't use a bolt/stud with nuts; but you can make your own using a lathe...
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
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Jose Rivera
- Posts: 3803
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:21 pm
- Location: Vallejo California
Slitting saws
Try not climb mill specially with shallow cuts.
If one is cutting very deep then climb milling may be OK.
Climb milling is used mostly when one need a good finish using light passes.
On newer, specially CNC equipment I've seeing these machines climb mill very easy. Mainly because they are very sturdy and have zero backlash.
I came upon a treasure-trove of slitting saws on all sizes pitches and thicknesses.
I pay about $2.50 to $4.00 each. All in as new condition (and asked no questions).
Since this guy was selling out of a small shop in his garage I trusted what he told me.
I bought a whole bunch since these was almost like Easter Egg hunt
I have used very little of them but is something that comes really handy when you need it.
As for the arbors, I make my own and I love to make them.
I don't use a key because in case of a jam I like some time margin to be able to stop the machine.
With a key, there is no time almost to react and one may end up damaging the mill head or other parts of the machine. But I am not no expert on slitting.
I have a posting showing slitting here http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... hp?t=76591
If one is cutting very deep then climb milling may be OK.
Climb milling is used mostly when one need a good finish using light passes.
On newer, specially CNC equipment I've seeing these machines climb mill very easy. Mainly because they are very sturdy and have zero backlash.
I came upon a treasure-trove of slitting saws on all sizes pitches and thicknesses.
I pay about $2.50 to $4.00 each. All in as new condition (and asked no questions).
Since this guy was selling out of a small shop in his garage I trusted what he told me.
I bought a whole bunch since these was almost like Easter Egg hunt
I have used very little of them but is something that comes really handy when you need it.
As for the arbors, I make my own and I love to make them.
I don't use a key because in case of a jam I like some time margin to be able to stop the machine.
With a key, there is no time almost to react and one may end up damaging the mill head or other parts of the machine. But I am not no expert on slitting.
I have a posting showing slitting here http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... hp?t=76591
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