John J
If you haven't already purchased. Take a look at these : http://www.shars.com/product_categories ... ut&&page=6
I purchased one of this same brand from someone on ebay for even less & was able to pick scale lengths. I took a chance (1) because they were cheap, (2) could get a 36" & a 24" scale rather than the standard mill or lathe package (3) was to be installed on a VTL that arrived here about the same time that the pilgrims landed at Plymouth. I was afraid the machine had to much wear on the gibs, & might destroy the scales.
It has been going for well over a year now without an issue.
The hardware package that came with mine was really pretty good. Very nice swing arm for the readout itself (wee bit short for my taste). the cables are very flexable & well shielded with flexable metal jacket conduit. good ssecure attatchments for cables.
As with most cheaper items there was just enough in the mounting instructions to guide you through safe reader to scale tolerances but not much else. Operating manual not completely useless but close.
Came with a 2 year manufacturers warranty for all that's worth. It shipped from Hong Kong. There is supposed to be repair depots here in the US somewhere, but I didn't research it.
EDIT: I should have read the entire thread before posting. I see that you are done. Oh well maybe someone can make use of the info for a similar project.
Very nice looking install. I have made 3 very custom installations on machines that were manufactured before DROs were invented. Hard to do but all work very well.
DRO suggestions for mill
- seal killer
- Posts: 4696
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 pm
- Location: Ozark Mountains
John-J--
I am going through the same decision-making process, but have pretty much already settled on DRO-Pro. I have some off-topic questions for you, though.
What is that covering your mill table?
Do you use the sine table built into your rotary table very much? If so, for what kind of tasks? What model is it? Grizzly? Enco?
You really did do due diligence on this project and I intend to take advantage of it.
Thanks!
--Bill
I am going through the same decision-making process, but have pretty much already settled on DRO-Pro. I have some off-topic questions for you, though.
What is that covering your mill table?
Do you use the sine table built into your rotary table very much? If so, for what kind of tasks? What model is it? Grizzly? Enco?
You really did do due diligence on this project and I intend to take advantage of it.
Thanks!
--Bill
You are what you write.
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- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:21 pm
- Location: Vallejo California
DRO
I think that learning to use a milling machine using a DRO from the beginning will be similar as doing math with a calculator and never learn to do it long hand.
Take away a DRO and the person that has never learned to dominate milling without one will be lost and frustrated.
Is best to learn long hand first and then use a DRO to refine the skill.
Take away a DRO and the person that has never learned to dominate milling without one will be lost and frustrated.
Is best to learn long hand first and then use a DRO to refine the skill.
- mechanicalmagic
- Posts: 1431
- Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2007 12:11 am
- Location: Pleasanton, CA Land of perfect weather
Re: DRO
Full well knowing that Jose, and others will disagree, I'm willing to start the firestorm, (once again, I assume. I learned before knowledge of Trava-Dials.)Jose Rivera wrote:I think that learning to use a milling machine using a DRO from the beginning will be similar as doing math with a calculator and never learn to do it long hand.
Take away a DRO and the person that has never learned to dominate milling without one will be lost and frustrated.
Is best to learn long hand first and then use a DRO to refine the skill.
First Caveat: The DRO does not fail, or if it does, it will be fixed before continuing.
Second Caveat: The user will not be forced to use a machine with backlash, without DRO's.
So then, what's wrong with learning using DRO's, and trusting the machine?
We all (should be able to) trust the machine; otherwise, remove the dials, cut and measure ad infinitum.
All machines deflect, DRO or not, this is part of the craft. Understanding the limitations of the tools ARE important.
Let the debate begin. Why not trust the machine?
Dave
Every day I ask myself, "What's the most fun thing to do today."
9x48 BP clone, 12x36 lathe, TIG, MIG, Gas, 3 in 1 sheetmetal.
9x48 BP clone, 12x36 lathe, TIG, MIG, Gas, 3 in 1 sheetmetal.
- seal killer
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- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 pm
- Location: Ozark Mountains
Jose and Dave--
Jose, I agree concerning your math with a calculator statement. However, I am slowly learning to use the machine. I have found that I can read the dials and achieve VERY accurate measurements and cutter locations. I always check my movements in various ways, including electronic calipers, manual mics and electronic mics. As I have read on this forum, the electronic calipers are often in disagreement with . . . everything. My electronic mic and manual mics seem to agree, but I am not a skilled manual micrometer user.
Dave, I intend to use the DRO for convenience to (HOPEFULLY) eliminate, or mostly eliminate, the confusion and extra effort implied above. Most DROs I have read about include some neat functions that would appear to be handy right at the mill, as well.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that even with my limited experience, I have convinced myself of the integrity of the dials and that all the mistakes are made by me, not the mill. Often these mistakes are made in the confusion of the moment. It SEEMS to me that the DRO will help eliminate or at least greatly reduce, the "confusion of the moment."
--Bill
Jose, I agree concerning your math with a calculator statement. However, I am slowly learning to use the machine. I have found that I can read the dials and achieve VERY accurate measurements and cutter locations. I always check my movements in various ways, including electronic calipers, manual mics and electronic mics. As I have read on this forum, the electronic calipers are often in disagreement with . . . everything. My electronic mic and manual mics seem to agree, but I am not a skilled manual micrometer user.
Dave, I intend to use the DRO for convenience to (HOPEFULLY) eliminate, or mostly eliminate, the confusion and extra effort implied above. Most DROs I have read about include some neat functions that would appear to be handy right at the mill, as well.
I suppose what I am trying to say is that even with my limited experience, I have convinced myself of the integrity of the dials and that all the mistakes are made by me, not the mill. Often these mistakes are made in the confusion of the moment. It SEEMS to me that the DRO will help eliminate or at least greatly reduce, the "confusion of the moment."
--Bill
You are what you write.
My mill (first) came to me with working DRO. At least half the time, I don't even turn it on. Even when I do, I take up the back lash, and feed relative to cutter rotation in order to eliminate table walk. But the DRO is used for repetition and layout as well as complex movements just because it is SO much easier when moving in from multiple directions. I don't see myself as being married to or crippled by it, but rather it is simply a tool that makes my task easier in some cases.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
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- Location: Nottingham, England.
Life's too short.
I have a Bridgeport here that had a two axis Heidenhain readout on it when bought.
It's probably about 20 years old and a couple of weeks ago on a Friday as usual, the long X axis whist at the limit of it's travel, left the reader head behind, pulled the fine wires out of it and snapped the rubber standoff's that support it.
Now I'm dead in the water without one of these as most of my work is in metric on an imperial machine.
At 20 years old it's time for a new one as repairing these old units is too costly.
I quick look thru the mags and there are two main players in the UK, Machine DRO and Onyx DRO.
I know the Machine DRO guys from the shows and they are genuine guys selling the Chinese glass scale DRO's, Onyxy do the same.
With Machine DRO you choose a readout and the scales to suit and work a price out.
With Onyx he does a package deal, readout and 2 scales for a set price. Probably works on the swings and roundabout principle that not everyone needs two 40" scales
Onyx worked out the cheapest at £350 inc tax for a 2 axis setup.
But for £50 more you get a 3 axis readout and another scale up to 40" - no contest.
Rang the guy on Saturday in the vain hopes they worked Saturday morning but got the answer phone, didn't bother to leave a message and would contact them first thing Monday.
Saturday afternoon he returns the phone call, confirms everything is ex stock and even though postage was only £6 I was going that way on the Monday so picked it up.
Fitted it Tuesday just two axis, the knee will have to wait as there are no brackets on the machine and to be honest I don't have time and it never had one to miss, the quill has a caliper type readout which suits me.
So I'm now two days behind with being out Monday collecting machines and Tuesday fitting the DRO.
First catchup job was a mounting flange, drop it on the bed, clamp down, touch on one side of the centre hole, zero the DRO, touch the other side, press the 1/2 key, wind to zero, then do the opposite axis. Centre found, no maths, no calculator no chance of error.
Next click the bolt circle icon, where zero ? here, enter diameter, 105mm, number of holes? 6, starting angle? 0, move to position 1 drill press down arrow, position 2 drill etc
Yes yes I can do the maths, I know trig but using this won't take that away from me. That simple job probably saved me 30 minutes.
As regards drilling holes in machines who is to say the manufacturer got it right anyway. One of my lathes has the holes drilled in it for a taper turning attachment, the other hasn't even though they make one.
Sorry it's 2008 the world isn't flat anymore.
John S.
I have a Bridgeport here that had a two axis Heidenhain readout on it when bought.
It's probably about 20 years old and a couple of weeks ago on a Friday as usual, the long X axis whist at the limit of it's travel, left the reader head behind, pulled the fine wires out of it and snapped the rubber standoff's that support it.
Now I'm dead in the water without one of these as most of my work is in metric on an imperial machine.
At 20 years old it's time for a new one as repairing these old units is too costly.
I quick look thru the mags and there are two main players in the UK, Machine DRO and Onyx DRO.
I know the Machine DRO guys from the shows and they are genuine guys selling the Chinese glass scale DRO's, Onyxy do the same.
With Machine DRO you choose a readout and the scales to suit and work a price out.
With Onyx he does a package deal, readout and 2 scales for a set price. Probably works on the swings and roundabout principle that not everyone needs two 40" scales
Onyx worked out the cheapest at £350 inc tax for a 2 axis setup.
But for £50 more you get a 3 axis readout and another scale up to 40" - no contest.
Rang the guy on Saturday in the vain hopes they worked Saturday morning but got the answer phone, didn't bother to leave a message and would contact them first thing Monday.
Saturday afternoon he returns the phone call, confirms everything is ex stock and even though postage was only £6 I was going that way on the Monday so picked it up.
Fitted it Tuesday just two axis, the knee will have to wait as there are no brackets on the machine and to be honest I don't have time and it never had one to miss, the quill has a caliper type readout which suits me.
So I'm now two days behind with being out Monday collecting machines and Tuesday fitting the DRO.
First catchup job was a mounting flange, drop it on the bed, clamp down, touch on one side of the centre hole, zero the DRO, touch the other side, press the 1/2 key, wind to zero, then do the opposite axis. Centre found, no maths, no calculator no chance of error.
Next click the bolt circle icon, where zero ? here, enter diameter, 105mm, number of holes? 6, starting angle? 0, move to position 1 drill press down arrow, position 2 drill etc
Yes yes I can do the maths, I know trig but using this won't take that away from me. That simple job probably saved me 30 minutes.
As regards drilling holes in machines who is to say the manufacturer got it right anyway. One of my lathes has the holes drilled in it for a taper turning attachment, the other hasn't even though they make one.
Sorry it's 2008 the world isn't flat anymore.
John S.
- seal killer
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- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:58 pm
- Location: Ozark Mountains
John--
Great story!
When you guys gonna adopt the English System? You know, inches and feet and stuff like that make a lot more sense than a measurement system based on a constant of Nature.
--Bill
ps When I first started making stuff, just many months ago, I adopted the metric system as my system of choice. It was SO much more straight-forward. Somehow, that changed. Not the metric system, it is still as perfect as Nature will allow. But my perception of how to measure and think about measurements changed. I wonder why? The environment, perhaps?
Great story!
When you guys gonna adopt the English System? You know, inches and feet and stuff like that make a lot more sense than a measurement system based on a constant of Nature.
--Bill
ps When I first started making stuff, just many months ago, I adopted the metric system as my system of choice. It was SO much more straight-forward. Somehow, that changed. Not the metric system, it is still as perfect as Nature will allow. But my perception of how to measure and think about measurements changed. I wonder why? The environment, perhaps?
You are what you write.