** How do You Deal With Swapping Lathe Tools in Holders?

awake · Post by **awake** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:57 pm

For a convenient way to store the tool holders where they are easily accessed, consider a "lazy susan":

This one is just a piece of plywood cut into a circle on the bandsaw, with another piece of plywood, bored out to take a large old ball bearing that I had lying around, attached on the bottom. I turned a stub that fit into the ball bearing and welded it to some angle iron and attached it to the lathe. I added some plywood "uprights," and attached some short pieces cut to fit easily in the dovetails of the tool holders.

At the time this picture was taken, it held 12 toolholders; I've since added another "layer" so that it holds 18, and it's nearly full. As you can see, the middle also provides a place for some S&D drills and other odds and ends.

BTW, I didn't quite understand what some of you were talking about. It almost sounded like you had bought toolholders. All 17 of mine are homemade -- to match the homemade QCTP!

BadDog · Post by **BadDog** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:53 pm

Likewise, here is my tool block turret (sorry for the sad photo). It holds up to 24 CXA tool blocks along with a selection of other tools.

Click to enlarge:

Oh, and the file doesn't actually go there, it was part of my "I wonder what else could be put on there" brain-storming effort and happened to be caught in that pic. Obviously it's too dangerous to dangle from the handle like that, but I did put some stuff up there, including my depth gage, de-burr knife, scale, etc.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:51 pm

If you have to keep changing the bits in the holder, it ain't quick change!

I picked up a pile from CDCO and now I don't change anywhere near as often.

Hint: Get a box of good socket head setscrews (holo-krome, fastenal or other made is USA) to replace the ones on the holders (the ones that clamp the tool bit). I've never seen screws that were made of butter, but these come close. When I got them, I replaced every screw.

My dad stores his on a narrow section of wall next to a closet. He took some aluminum angle about 1x1 and cut sections big enough to fit in the widest part of the dovetail and screwed them to the wall. probably has 20 in a column on the wall. You could use that approach on Awake's lazy susan.

Steve

toastydeath · Post by **toastydeath** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 11:26 pm

In my opinion, it's difficult to really get the full use out of a QCTP without having, at minimum, ~10 holders. Figure in a few boring/drill holders, cutoff tool, etc, in that number.

We have around 6 per QCTP at school, and it's still annoying. Considering how mundane the turning is there, we could get away with 8 and not have to change tools very often, but 10+ would be nice.

One trick a toolmaker showed me was to split a few HSS bits in half. Then, mount two in the holder - The "normal" tool is still whatever it is, the other is facing/chamfering/grooving/whatever. Or it can be a turning tool for chucking operations if you pay attention to how you're grinding it.

There's a few tools I really like this approach for - finish turning especially. There's a finishing bit oriented normally, and a chamfering bit on the back. Finish the diameter, flip it, and break all the edges. One less tool sitting on the workbench.

Black_Moons · Post by **Black_Moons** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:36 am

Iv seen another trick when grinding HSS, you can put multiple tools into a single bit. its hard to explain, but for example
/|
/ \
| |
| |
A bit like this could turn/face to a shallow shoulder, chamfer OD, Chamfer ID with enough clearance for the tip and chamfer OD if theres not a shoulder in the way. though it can get complex when you try and add rake to the cutting edges, you should be able to get 2 types cutting edges on the same tool tip.

jim rozen · Post by **jim rozen** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:13 am

Quick change tool holders? That's what long winter nights are for. You
just take the time and run off a bunch of them. At this point I've got
three different kinds of toolposts, none of them aloris. So I just make
them from whatever's handy, typically cold rolled steel.

The small pratt whitney machine has an aloris MA knockoff clone that
I got from litttlemachineshop.com, those are easy because they are
*so* small.

The southbend has a pretty rare enco toolpost, turret type with one
QC position, with dual V-ways. I've been making those for a long time,
also because nobody else seems to have one of those toolposts, they
go cheap on the rare occasions they're on the market.

And the split bed hardinge, that uses another oddball, a reverse dovetail
by hardinge. Expensive, tough to machine because the tolerances on
the dovetail are pretty picky.

Jim

SteveHGraham · Post by **SteveHGraham** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:12 am

All 17 of mine are homemade -- to match the homemade QCTP!

Face it, dude. You are a stud.

Is there any reason to get tool holders without the boring bar groove? Seems like the groove makes a holder more versatile, but if there were no down side, there would be no such thing as a turning holder with no groove.

lakeside53 · Post by **lakeside53** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:39 am

There is no downside to the groove.

SteveM · Post by **SteveM** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 10:28 am

lakeside53 wrote:There is no downside to the groove.

If, for some reason, you need to use a very small square cutting tool, it will not sit in the bottom of the groove properly, although I guess you could shim it up with flat stock.

I have not run into that problem yet, but I have some without the groove, so I'm set if I do.

Most of mine have the groove. Worth spending the extra buck that some of the suppliers ask.

Steve

awake · Post by **awake** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:08 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
All 17 of mine are homemade -- to match the homemade QCTP!
Face it, dude. You are a stud.

Is there any reason to get tool holders without the boring bar groove? Seems like the groove makes a holder more versatile, but if there were no down side, there would be no such thing as a turning holder with no groove.

Not at all -- I am a cheapskate! And my wife controls the checkbook, which is a good thing, since otherwise we would be broke. Also, I'm a scavenger -- all the material for the tool holders has been scavenged from one source or another. I hardly ever buy stock, and when I do it is either scrap / drops from a shop, or a lot at an auction for cheap money.

As for the groove in the combo turning / boring bar holders, the only other potential drawback would be if you were to use a small tool bit that could "wobble" over the groove. [on edit: sorry -- that's what SteveM already said!] But if you want another option ... here are a couple of tool holders I made just for boring bars:

The larger one takes .750" diameter shanks or bars, but I also made a split sleeve (shown in the first picture) to allow it to take .625" bars. The smaller one takes .500" diameter bars, or .375" with a sleeve. (You can see a .375" bar in the sleeve in the first picture.) This design is very convenient -- very rigid, easy to adjust, etc.

I have also made a heavier-duty design boring bar holder:

This one is less convenient to use, since it replaces the QCTP. However, it can take up to a 1" boring bar, and is very rigid.

Mark Hockett · Post by **Mark Hockett** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:09 pm

Steve,
On some lathes the groove is useless as you can't get the tool holder to adjust high enough with a small diameter boring bar. On my lathe with a 1/2" diameter bar it won't adjust high enough so I have to put a shim under the adjustment knob or shim the tool which defeats the groove. I would get the holders without the groove and make a thin V-block style shim to use with round tools. Then any of your standard tool holders can be used with a round tool if needed.

quasi · Post by **quasi** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 2:39 pm

I have bought and used CDCO Aloris holders in AXA, BXA, CXA sizes. The BXA and CXA sizes are made on smaller blocks of steel than the holders that came with the toolpost sets from Shars.

They still work fine, but they are smaller.