trouble with #4 warner swasey

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todd goff
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trouble with #4 warner swasey

Post by todd goff » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:06 am

Guys, I hope everyone is doing good but I sure could use a little encouragement and/or advice right now. I have been working on my #4 warner swasey turret lathe now for probably about a year and it aint going good to be quite honest. I had a clutch disc to go out due to lack of fluid cooling it so I naturally did what anybody would do (tear the gearbox apart and replace the culprit). Now I am between a rock and a hard place because after I had gotten the gearbox reassembled I assumed it would be smooth sailing (b.s.). It seems that I have broken an oil line on the machine when I removed the top cover and I cannot get one to replace it. I have tried and tried to fab a replacement line and cannot and I mean CANNOT get the bends right. The problem lies in the fact that one of the shifter forks is near the oil line and when you try to set the cover you run a high risk of damaging the line. This thing is really perplexing me now and I don't know what to do. If I could pick up another machine for a couple hundred bucks like I did this one I would and would write this other one off; I am just to this point. The sad part is I probably got 2 or 3 grand worth of tooling with this machine but it aint doing me a whole lot of good right now with it like it is. :cry:

Black_Moons
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Post by Black_Moons » Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:23 am

Maybe its time to start thinking of where else that oil line might go? Even if it has go via new holes and sealed bulkheads outside of the lathe? Or maybe some highly oil resistant (neoprene?) tubing could be used insted and secured in place or routed somewhere else easily where it won't be in the way of anything, and surive any impacts from the 'cover'?

Can we get some pictures of the problem at hand? some more details?

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mechanicalmagic
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Post by mechanicalmagic » Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:07 pm

Todd,
I did a fair amount of pneumatic plumbing in a prior life. Nothing looks worse than 4 hard lines running side by side with half the bends just a little off. So, here's one way to replicate bends very accurately.

Mount the tube bender in the quill of your mill, horizontal infeed. I use my boring head. Mount a spindex/rotab to the milltable. Grab the tubing in the spindex, and aim it at the input of your tube bender. You can change one bend angle by turning the spindex, and the distance between bends with the X axis of the table. It takes only a few moments to set up. Pict #1.

This method allows you to make precise REPEATABLE bends. Once you know what bends are wrong, you just change those, and all the good ones can be duplicated. Sure it takes some trial and error sometimes, but it can be done.

I'm also not adverse to turning my BP clone into a press brake, for small springs, clips and the like. Repeatability can be excellent. Pict #2.

Dave J.
Attachments
Mill Bender.JPG
A way to repeatably bend tubing.
Press Brake Tools.JPG
Little bending tools for the mill.
Every day I ask myself, "What's the most fun thing to do today."
9x48 BP clone, 12x36 lathe, TIG, MIG, Gas, 3 in 1 sheetmetal.

Black_Moons
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Post by Black_Moons » Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:41 pm

Sometimes the tricks you guys come up with just blow my mind. using your mill as a precision holder is perfict with such light duty stresses as bending 1/4" tubing. Thicker i might worry about depending on the size of the mill, but for 1/4" oil tubing, wow.

todd goff
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Location: South Carolina

trouble with #4 warner swasey

Post by todd goff » Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:57 pm

I have a tubing bender for copper tubing that I have been trying to use to get the bends right but so far it hasn't happened. I am starting to lean towards neoprene or some sort of plastic tubing as it will at least flex. I will have to drill 2 holes in it for the hydraulic oil to come out of to cool the clutches and it needs to be able to stand about 90 psi (this would be a gracious plenty as it probably only has 20 or 30). I will try to post some pics later on, it has really been a problem child, though. If anyone has a suggestion of what type plastic line might would be good please let me know. :?:

TomB
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Make a plan

Post by TomB » Fri Jul 17, 2009 7:27 pm

One of the things we tend to skip as hobbyists is making a plan on a piece of paper. When something is done for money the first step is laying out a schedule chart with dependencies, i.e. its not the deadlines that are important it's the dependencies. What mustt be done before or after something else and what can be done at any time.

When doing the project and following alone the critical path everybody will reach a point where progress seems thawarted. Given a plan that show dependencies you can set aside work on the critial path to go do some other task that must be done before completion. That break from what seens like a total block is almost always enougn so that the mind will invent a solutions to what was an insurmountable obstacle.

Tom

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steamin10
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Post by steamin10 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 10:32 pm

Replacing copper oil tubing is easy, once you know a few tricks.

Always use a bender, it keeps the sides from collapsing in, and flattening the tube. Some tubes will get a D shape as it pulls the outside in.

Use heat and anneal the areas to bend, heat and quench in cold water, copper works the oposite of steal, and will be dead soft after such treatment. If it collapses, fillit with cerrobend, and make your bends, it melts below the temp of boiling water, and then heat it out when done. Fine brass tubing can be bent this way too avoiding a kink, you can work out the radias.

Put in a 90* ferral fitting to pass over a box. This allows you to remove the lines and make a 90* bend out of the way, without yards of line trailing behind to snake in/out.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
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KenHMT
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Re:

Post by KenHMT » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:25 pm

mechanicalmagic wrote:Todd,
I did a fair amount of pneumatic plumbing in a prior life. Nothing looks worse than 4 hard lines running side by side with half the bends just a little off. So, here's one way to replicate bends very accurately.

Mount the tube bender in the quill of your mill, horizontal infeed. I use my boring head. Mount a spindex/rotab to the milltable. Grab the tubing in the spindex, and aim it at the input of your tube bender. You can change one bend angle by turning the spindex, and the distance between bends with the X axis of the table. It takes only a few moments to set up. Pict #1.

This method allows you to make precise REPEATABLE bends. Once you know what bends are wrong, you just change those, and all the good ones can be duplicated. Sure it takes some trial and error sometimes, but it can be done.

I'm also not adverse to turning my BP clone into a press brake, for small springs, clips and the like. Repeatability can be excellent. Pict #2.

Dave J.
Very nice! Wish I'd thought of this years ago when bending the various hard lines for my airplane project.

Added to the database at homemadetools.net: http://www.homemadetools.net/bending-setup-for-a-mill

Ken

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