Weight Difference Between Rotary Tables

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seal killer
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Post by seal killer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:09 pm

SteveHGraham--

I bought a H/V 10" Phase II from Enco a little over a year ago for $295.95. It also leaks oil, but Phase II told me to expect that.

I bought this thing from Horror Fright and transmorfified it into the perfect lift table to hold heavy stuff. It easily holds both the Kurt and the Phase II and folds down to fit into my existing shelving system, parallel to the wall.

--Bill
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Lifting table. Perfect for my shop.
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BadDog
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Post by BadDog » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:31 pm

I've got a Troyke 12" V/H and it is far too heavy for one person to place on/off the mill. So I just finished something akin to a "die cart". It's a table on heavy duty casters with a heavy cast iron top (~400 lbs) made from the table of a small horizontal boring mill. The T slots will be used for holding welding fixtures and what not, but I also rigged a "sky hook" to bolt down using the slots. This will allow me to easily load the rotab onto the table/cart and move as needed, then load on/off the mill table by sliding or use of the sky hook. One part remaining to be fabricated is the extendable outrigger (like used for back-hoe and bucket truck stability) to keep from tipping over.

This cart will also be used to deal with my enormous (15"?) Rohm 4 jaw and 16" face plates, or anything else too heavy to fool with by hand. I also plan to add some pseudo-shelves under the cart to store the heavy stuff so it act as ballast.

On the other hand, a strictly horizontal rotab will cover the most common uses, and weighs a LOT less. I've got an 8" import that is SO much more convenient, and covers most of my needs, though it can be really cramped to use. But my most used tooling of this type is my 6" Hartford with 6" Pratt Burnerd 4 jaw bolted on. Even with the chuck, it's easily handled, and it covers 90% of what I need to do. And the 5C collet blocks are also heavily used for 2, 3, 4 and 6 way indexing on parts that fit a 5C.
Russ
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Jose Rivera
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Post by Jose Rivera » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:39 pm

A word of caution about having those tall (top heavy) carts.

While working at a small shop, they had a 18" RT, it sat on a low cart with steel rollers.

Every day it had to be pushed by two people outside and reverse at the end of the day.

The shop gates had a grooved track on the floor.
One day this low cart got stuck on that floor groove and tipped over on one of the guy's foot. Lost two toes :cry:

The higher the table the bigger the danger.

I have a 4" RT and I am always amazed at how heavy it is. I don't need anything bigger than it.

Just got this adv. from littlemachineshop.
http://campaign.constantcontact.com/ren ... -QalR4WmFj
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Retired journeyman machinist and 3D CAD mechanical designer - hobbyist - grandpa

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seal killer
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Post by seal killer » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:32 pm

Jose--

Great advice.

I am ALWAYS very careful when using the lift table, although there is a lot of steel at the bottom, there is more at the top.

Thanks again for the caution.

--Bill
ps The most it ever moves is about four feet. When moving, it is at its lowest height. Once in place, I use the hydraulics to do the lifting. Then, I have to move it an additional 8 inches to mate up with the mill table. Once that is done, the wheels get locked and I am good to go. It is not a frail mechanism and has zero wobble. I'm still careful.
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BadDog
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Post by BadDog » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:40 pm

Absolutely right Jose.

That's the reason I'm adding the extendable outriggers. Frankly, moving that thing does scare me, and of course, the outriggers will be retracted when moving in my cramped shop. But that's also the reason the other heavy stuff (rotabs, big chucks, etc) are going on the bottom so that it is a bit more stable.
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Black_Moons
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Post by Black_Moons » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:51 pm

IMO 8" is about the biggest you'll get before wanting a hoist.
Also note that bigger isent allways better! think about when your using it verticaly, the table itself will get in the way of the spindle and tool when you try and work close to the table. meaning you have to mount things 'off' the table a ways to get at them, reducing rigidity, praticaly begging for a tailstock.
of course, you also only get that much swing for big parts, but you can allways put a block under your table and tailstock for more swing. You can also put out riggers or a topplate to make the table 'bigger'
though expect to pay more for the rotary table and topplate then the bigger rotary table, realise that 8" + topplate is still indivualy under the 1 person carry limit, while a 10" or 12" would beg for a hoist.

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Mark Hockett
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Post by Mark Hockett » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:44 pm

Steve,
If you get an 8" table and you need a larger top surface it is very easy to make a larger diameter tooling plate to mount on top. I have an 8" and a 10" rotab, the one I use most often is the 8" because it is much easier to get on and off the machine. It is even small enough and light enough that I can leave it on the machine and use a vise next to it if needed. I wouldn't want to leave a rotab as heavy as a 10" on with a vise too.
Mark Hockett

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SteveHGraham
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Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:00 pm

Does anyone have any idea what size 4-jaw chuck would be best for a 10" table?
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Black_Moons
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Post by Black_Moons » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:28 pm

I allmost wanna make a D1-4 nose for my rotary table so I can swap chucks to and from my lathe on it.. But maybe im just crazy.

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BadDog
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Post by BadDog » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:32 pm

Perhaps a 10"? :lol:

Just depends on what you need to hold, what you find convenient (both size and availability), and perhaps attachment options. If you have a 4 slot table, a "plain back" 4 jaw usually has 4 holes through from the face, so easy bolted on with t-nuts. I have a 6" Pratt Burnerd 4 jaw on my 6" Hartford this way. I also have a 10" buck that I've used on both my 12" Troyke V/H and also my my import 8" (at the moment, that 10" Buck has an adapter on it for D1-6). But if you have a 3 or 6 (etc) slot table, mounting requires more creativity, and you might be better off with a face mount/bolt 3 jaw.
Russ
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SteveHGraham
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Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:47 pm

The hardest thing about machining is figuring out what you want. I have a hard time picking out a simple end mill. The rotary table/super spacer/dividing head puzzle is a million times worse.

It looks like I can get a 10" Phase II 4-jaw chuck for a surprisingly low price, so I guess the best idea is a Phase II 10" table with either an 8" or 10" Phase II 4-jaw chuck.

Then maybe an ice bag for my head.

I know I'll regret buying a big table whenever I move it, and I'll regret buying a small table whenever it turns out to be too small, so I better make a choice and get it over with.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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SteveHGraham
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Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Aug 05, 2009 4:02 pm

I can't believe I have yet another brilliant question.

Do I need anything other than T nuts and screws to mount a plain back chuck on a rotary table?

Never mind; think I got it.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

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