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 Post subject: evaporust
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:13 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:24 am
Posts: 8
Location: Sunny Oakland, CA
Ok, I looked at the link and I guess I will get some and try it!

Relieved not to be taking apart the head end. I do want to clean out the threading gearbox though. Will have to figure out how to do that. It's a roller bearing head. I think I have a cork big enough for the spindle bore.

I also want to take the motor off and see if it has any lubrication points. It's hard to see under there.

Do people think it's wise to rewire the motor for 220? This one says it's 110/220 and I have both in the garage. Will it run better one way or another? I know the current draw will be approximately 1/2 as much at 220 so there will be less heating of the wires and stuff.

So, do I need those spanners to take the chuck adapter plate off or is there another way ( there always is :) ).

Thanks!
Beez

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:18 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Concord, CA.
Beez,
I no longer have my 1236 but I had it for about 10 years and only sold it a few months back. I can probably answer many of the questions on the spindle. I also have a nice chuck that will fit it.

Charlie

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 11:37 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 797
Location: Woodinville, WA
Threading Gearbox - be careful with the the "flush in place with solvent " process. It likely has open bearings that will get grit and junk in them. If the threading GB has rusty gears and shafts, disassemble with care - don't force gears off rusty shafts -use evaporust first. Bearing will likely need to be pressed in/out. If you haven't taken a gear box apart before, it can be daunting, but isn't all that difficult - the hardest part is figuring out how it was assembled, and in what order.

I do use "flush in place" often.. but use brand new solvent, and pump it though to a "used fluid " tank. Assuming you have a drain plug, remove it - don't "fill" the GB with solvent... Same applies to your headstock - flush down and out, and direct your solvent stream away from the bearings until the box is pretty much spotless. When done, fill the gb/headstock with a light hydraulic oil (like iso 32 etc) and run for a few hours, then dump it all and refill with the correct oils.


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 Post subject: Progress!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:24 am
Posts: 8
Location: Sunny Oakland, CA
Thanks Charlie!
I sent you a PM. I hope we can get together soon if work calms down a little, I also get two whole days off this week, Tues and Weds. I PM'd you again... Is there an easy and correct method to take off the chuck adapter that's threaded onto the spindle?

Lakeside, excellent advice! I've already gotten all the back gears cleaned off, inspected etc. They all look great, all the teeth are fine and no chips or bent ones. I think the threading gearbox ( that's the lower left hand corner with the two gearshift levers in Charlie's 1236 picture ) is open at the bottom so probably those just run grease. As far as I can tell, the only oil filled locations on this lathe are the apron and the spindle front and rear.

Question: The sight glass on the apron is clouded. It seems like just a pressed in piece of plastic. Anybody know if I can get that out and how?

Thanks!
Beez
8)

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:18 pm
Posts: 71
Location: Concord, CA.
The quick change gears are oiled. The plate above the QC unit lifts off and there are holes underneath it to oil the gears.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:19 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:24 am
Posts: 8
Location: Sunny Oakland, CA
Well,
I have made a big mistake using the evaporust and wanted to warn others about it. I soaked some terrycloth towel strips in the stuff, and laid them on the ways for a little over 24 hours. When I went to take them off, they were stuck to the ways. Yeah, the rust was removed but the formerly smooth parts of the ways, the parts that didn't have any rust, are now etched with a terrycloth texture. So, it seems clear that evaporust DOES attack the good metal under the right ( wrong ) conditions. :shock:

I was trying to avoid pulling all the stuff of the lathe head end. Now it seems like I am going to have to do that anyway and have the bed ground to boot. :evil:

Anyone know approximately how much it would cost me to have the ways ground, or should I just throw in the towel ( so to speak ). Recommendations on where to get this done in the Oakland, CA area?

Thanks!
Chris
:cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 3:43 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Posts: 13652
Location: Onalaska, WA USA
beez wrote:
Well,
I have made a big mistake using the evaporust and wanted to warn others about it.

I have an attitude (and a policy) about rusted machines. I don't (and won't) go there. I am not a fan of rusted machine tools. YMMV.

What one pays for in a machine tool is precision. When a machine gets rusted to the point that wiping with a rag won't remove the rust, it has rusted beyond it's intended value. Even if you can remove the rust, it will have come at the cost of losing the very thing you hope for----the machine's ability to do precision work.

Having the bed ground will not be a simple solution. The lead screw and other rods that may be present have a fixed relationship with the headstock. When you alter the bed, you alter that relationship. That will lead to yet more rework that may be beyond your capability.

My advice? Sell if for scrap, and look for a machine that hasn't been (1) worn beyond being useful, and (2), rusted. I'd encourage you to even consider a new import. They may not be the best machines on the market, but they aren't rusted beyond worth, either.

Harold


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 Post subject: lathe
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Posts: 4008
Location: mid atlantic
You know beez all these guys are right. I happen to have the same lathe/nearly the same which I use regularly. This one came from Enco and is flat faced unlike the pic supplied by our friend. There were differences around those times and many variations.
I was at once appalled about "tipping the lathe" to empty out the lube. Then I became reasonable about it , then almost accepted it... Then I got rational. This is a 700 lb machine which never had contaminated oil tipped into its rear spindle roller bearings unless you do it.
This is a belt driven lathe with a cover and there is another situation about how the fr/bk brgs get lubed . Whatever is under the cover is water and junk and soak it out LEVEL ! Just clean it out level with rags at the end. It's not a freakin gearhead! I'll tell you what,! I'll say if you really want to have your whole lathe apart! WHEN you would rather use or learn with it then go ahead and soak those belts. DON'T and Don't mess with the headstock bearings (unless you see obvious) Because at this point you are removing the infection.
Also the ways are Very hard and the worse thing would be acid to cut through their hardness when any other abrasive would cut through the rust.


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 Post subject: leadways
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:04 pm
Posts: 4008
Location: mid atlantic
I must say Harold I'm a slower typist. We see it from different angle this time. This is not what you want parked without giving it a go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 06, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 364
Location: Australia
Hi, do you have any pictures of the bed as it is? If this is your first lathe I would not bother having it reground, for the cost you may well be better off buying a new lathe. If the rust is off I would just oil stone the bed evenly from end to end put it back together and use it to learn on. After using it for a while you will find out if it's accurate or not. Then you can either, learn to live with it, or pass it on and recoup some of your money.Dismantling it further will only cause more problems and headaches.
Davo


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:10 pm
Posts: 1059
Location: Farmington, NM
Before doing anything too drastic, how bad is the pitting? Are you talking about an etch that you cannot feel with a finger nail or are you talking about something worse? Is it possible that you have a buildup from a reaction with the terry cloth and chemical?

Have you tried a light steel wool to see what happens?

If it is only a discoloration or an etch you cannot feel, consider it no harm no foul.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2007 12:44 am
Posts: 797
Location: Woodinville, WA
I'm betting your have carbon (from the rust) marks... and they are more visual than "etched" from allowing the evaprust to dry out. Putting food wrap over the 'terry cloth" (I'd have used paper towels) would have stopped that.

I can't see the evaporust attacking the metal unless it rusted as it was drying. I sometimes see a line if I leave a part partially submerged - the interaction with oxygen at the surface can cause some marks/erosion.

Buff with a non-abrasive scotchgard type material. Any stoning will remove more material and not help. The way is a "bearing" surface and the carriage will ride on the "high spots" nicely.


Last edited by lakeside53 on Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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