Seeding the forum with casting Do's and Don't's

[Harold_V]

Hello Dave,

How eloquently stated! I thank you for your comments, Dave. I, too, share your feelings.

I am at a loss as to the need for the attack. Like you, I have tried to be helpful. Also like you, I base my posts on personal experiences, without which I would have nothing to say. Apparently that is considered bad form to some. For them, sorry, but I am not willing to dismiss my life experiences simply because they may annoy you. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/mad.gif"%20alt="[/img]

I wonder, Dave, would these folks prefer that we not post unless we post things that suit them? [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/confused.gif"%20alt="[/img] What a shame that we try to share knowledge, hard earned in some cases, and are treated like fools. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/frown.gif"%20alt="[/img]

I'm sorry to hear of your negative experiences, but know that you are not alone. How you have been treated appears to be a quality of certain rednecks that ply their talents on all of us. Sigh!!

Trying to share knowledge with those that will have nothing to do with it was best described as trying to teach a pig to sing. Not only are you wasting your time, but you're annoying the pig! Sadly, it appears to be true. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smirk.gif"%20alt="[/img]

Harold

[mattking]

Tell ya (y'all) what - I'll be "the bigger man" here and apologize for the "attack-ish" tone of my prior post. I will *not* apologize for taking exception with the, and this is only opinion here, the "attack" on Roy's methods.

The 'teaching a pig to sing' post had the general connotation, again in my opinion, of "slamming" Roy's experience.

There is another 'old-hand' that participates here, Forrest Addy, that many others take exception with - I find him quite an excellent substitute 'grandfather sort' personally. We'll chalk this up to a difference in my 30 years and your ?? years. Please understand - I *DO* respect your experience.

Harold, maybe we just got off on the wrong foot - I apologize. My name is Matt - nice to meet you.

I don't want these posts pulled - I'd love them to be left here as an exercise in the intricacies of PRINTED exchange. The 'tone' of a post can come across RADICALLY different from its intended approach, all because someone simply reads more into the words than was meant.

Harold - I value your experience. NOTHING is better than hands on experience. I derived from your 'pig' post that you did not value Roy's experience because of its 'string and bubblegum' aspects. If I missed the intent of the post, I again apologize.

I believe ALL approaches to an issue are valuable in a discussion of said issue - this allows one to view the spectrum of solutions to a given issue and balance quality vs cost vs ease vs skill.

I like ya all, I learn from you all - sorry your post burned my tail and that mine burned yours.

Take care,

Matt
[img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img]

[Harold_V]

Hey Matt,
The pleasure's all mine. Not to worry about the little barbs, sometimes things just don't set well with us and we have to vent.

Understand that I'm not at odds with Roy. I think he does some outstanding work and is to be admired. I posted a few things in addition to his for a good reason. He made everything sound so easy that anyone trying would be quickly disappointed and wonder why they couldn't achieve acceptable results. I figured by mentioning the problem areas as identified by the Foundry Society, I may be performing a valuable function.

I took all my information from a book that was recently given to me by one of the readers of this fine forum, and for that book I will be eternally grateful because it addresses all the things that anyone wanting to learn to cast should know, even if they don't adhere to the guidelines.

I'd like to apologize for my apparent abrupt nature and rude demeanor. It's not meant to be that way, I just say things that run through my head, thinking they're fine, don't really mean them to come out as they apparently do. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/blush.gif"%20alt="[/img]

As a result, I'd like to ask the indulgence of the group. if I say things that are stupid, or rude, please understand I am not trying to be that way. I do my level best to be of service, go far out of my way to even research things to provide decent responses. I have a reasonable library, so the books, along with my years of experience should provide reasonable answers in general. Certainly there will be times when I am wrong, and I'll welcome corrections with open arms. My purpose here is to teach as well as to learn.

OK, Matt, lets start over. Just keep in mind that I'm sort of an ass, shoot from the hip, but I try to be helpful. If you'll take from me what little I can do that is good, I'll do the same for you.

Regards,

Harold

[artk]

What I want from someone experienced in the field is to tell me the right way to do things and then where I can cut corners without injuring myself or others. On the old board not too long ago there was a discussion of steel crucibles as in the backyard foundry. A participant for whom I have a lot of respect said basically that while it wasn't the "best" thing to do, he hadn't seen any problems from iron contamination. He went on to say that he was careful to control the number of remelts, etc. I can just imagine that real foundry best practices might say to alloy with no less than 40 tons of material too!

Another example would be good old Forrest Addy who told a board member that if his welding work was such that human life depended on it, he should go get an engineer to write him a full welding procedure. Forest has that 40 or so years in the machinist trade, but guess what. He doesn't tell me to go to a certified professional engineer before welding up that grinder stand.

So I agree, I want someone to tell me how to do it the "right" way, but I also need advice on where I can fit it into my budget and my garage! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img]

-Art K

[BrianPeterson]

I am not trying to side here, but I would like to say thank you to both Harold and Orrin for the very informative posts, it is much apreciated.

[Harold_V]

You're very welcome, Brian. I'm of the opinion that between my pig headed perfectionist approach to things, and the more level headed approach from others, there's a lot of good information that is being offered here. It's up to the individual to pick that which best suits their application. That can happen only when all the cards are on the table. We've done our best with our limited experience to display them! [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/smile.gif"%20alt="[/img] Hope we've provided something useful for you.

Have a great day!

Harold

[Marty_Escarcega]

I belong to a metalworking club here in town. Lots of great people that love to share their experiences. Last year we all got together and poured furnaces. We had one fellow that led this group project. He'd been through all the pitfalls and shared his final design. He even went as far as ordering crucibles and foundry sand for those that wanted it. I want to say the refractory, sand and 2 crucibles set me back under $200. He advise one crucible for aluminu and one for brass or bronze. I guess what I am getting at is I have seen the pipe crucibles, I've even seen a guy make his own foundry sand from river silt. It works to a certain extent. For me I didn't see the $200 as expensive to do it right, but can see that it could be quite an expense for others. What it boils down to is listening to what MIGHT work and WHAT will work and at what costs and figure out where we fit in the curve and give it a whirl. Experimentation is part of the hobby, though I would really give a lot of thought to caution. Casting has its inherent dangers. A nasty burn or accident might cost well more than the $200 to have done it right. My personal experience by listening to those in the know, have convinced me to wait until more pennies were in the bank before undertaking some projects, rather than taken them on and risking the failure of short cuts.

I think everyone's opinion in this thread has some value with respect to the actual task at hand. It is the responsibility of the reader to weigh those opinions and thoughts and see what parts suit him the best.

We learn by asking the most mundane questions.....and some of us come from the school of hard knocks.

Marty

[Dapiddler]

I do apprecaite the kindness and generosity of those with gray hair to share their knowledge and experience with us. Thanks to all you folks, this has been a spirited exchange. It is a great to have the freedom of speech, ain't it? I , for one, am ready to get a 'store bought' crucible'. [img]/ubb/images/graemlins/grin.gif"%20alt="[/img]

[Antonio Ramos]

Hellos alls.
I have read your post about steel crucibles yes, steel crucibles no.

I propose a solution for alls they want it, without appeal to expensive Sc crucicbles.
Make a mix with 50% withe clay, 20 % Kaolin 30% grog.Put two layers of newspaper into crucible foravoid that mix stick on.
Use your steel crucible as mould. Use the mix dry as you as. The wall of mix in your steel crucible must be 1 or 1,5 cm. When the mix is dry they wil shrink.
Put all in your crucible furnace , and burn . very slowly at firts. After 1 hour put it to max .When it is could , you can see space between steel and silica crucible.

Fill voids wiht coarse gypsum , and weld tiny ears on top steel crucible for retain
silica crucible.
Burn again slowly.

It is possible that the silica crucible crack in use. Fill craks with the mix without grog, and add some sodium silicate.

Bye iron contamination.

Antonio ramos.
Spain.

[BillJ]

Orrin, it will probably be a long time before I'm able to start melting metal, but in the meantime I sure appreciate the information I salt away from guys like you and Harold.

It's unfortunate that your attempt to provide a thread of basic do's and don'ts disintegrated into an argument over whether or not it's worth using the right equipment.

I always prefer learning from a perfectionist. Where a non-standard procedure is commonly used I want to know the why's and wherefore's. I don't what to be breezily reassured that it doesn't matter.

Anyway Orrin, thanks for trying.