First time poster here, and new to machining!

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Harold_V
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Harold_V » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:41 pm

Patio wrote:1) Where the back side face, of my backing plate, registers against my spindle, (SB 2-1/8 spindle) Is that surfaced supposed to be faced for proper fit first before facing the backing plate for the chuck? It "looks" like a good fit now.
If you acquired a backing plate that was already threaded, I'm inclined to suggest that you not touch the existing shoulder, which acts as a register of sorts. The reasoning being that you may or may not achieve a condition that is at a right angle to the pitch line of the thread. The exception would be if the backing plate, when installed on the spindle, runs out. Assuming it is threaded, and you have installed it to see it run, how it runs should answer your questions.
2) My chuck has through holes in it for the mounting bolts! Am I suppose to some how make threaded holes in the backplate for the bolts to thread into?
3) Or do I drill slightly over sized holes in the backing plate and run the bolts all the way through and use nuts on the back side? Being as the bolts just hold the chuck against the backing plate.
The best possible scenario is to assemble the chuck with nothing protruding. It's common for a guy to place his hand on the chuck as it slows to a stop. Anything sticking out has the potential to give grief. If the face of the chuck has counterbored holes, you can take advantage of them by using socket head cap screws that fit the tapped holes you'd provide in the backing plate. You can locate the holes reliably by using a transfer punch, then picking up each punch mark using a small drill, no larger than the dimple created. A small drill is flexible enough to pick the punch and drill on location, whereas a larger drill may drill where it is aimed, and not follow the established punch mark. Once you have picked up the punch mark with a small drill, you can then drill the small hole with a larger drill. If your drills are well pointed, you can drill to size. If they have been hand ground, it's not a bad idea to drill slightly undersized, then open the hole with the proper sized drill. By doing so, you insure you don't create an oversized hole for the thread. That's particularly important when machining cast iron, which isn't very strong at the outset, and is easy to cut oversized when using a less than perfect drill.

Were you to have a functional mill, I'd suggest you rely on trig to locate the tapped holes, assuming the holes in the chuck were established on a bolt circle, which they likely were.

Lots of ways to approach the installation and achieve good results---depending on one's workmanship.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:15 pm

Harold_V wrote: If you acquired a backing plate that was already threaded, I'm inclined to suggest that you not touch the existing shoulder, which acts as a register of sorts.
I was hoping that would be the answer I would get.
Harold_V wrote:The best possible scenario is to assemble the chuck with nothing protruding. It's common for a guy to place his hand on the chuck as it slows to a stop. Anything sticking out has the potential to give grief. If the face of the chuck has counterbored holes, you can take advantage of them by using socket head cap screws that fit the tapped holes you'd provide in the backing plate. You can locate the holes reliably by using a transfer punch, then picking up each punch mark using a small drill, no larger than the dimple created. A small drill is flexible enough to pick the punch and drill on location, whereas a larger drill may drill where it is aimed, and not follow the established punch mark.
Not having things sticking out on spinning objects makes perfect sense to me. I will make a transfer punch for the job in the collet holder and heat treat it well enough for this project.
Thanks Harold for the answers to my many questions. I can now proceed forward. I will post here how it goes, some time after Thanksgiving.

Projects to do;
Thumb screw for shapers tool slide lock.
Make rod and bracket for taper attachment.
Make adapter to attach milling attachment to cross slide.
Make cross slide stop for threading.
Make carriage stop with dial indicator holder for carriage.

This is the immediate list, that should give me some good practice.
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Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

Harold_V
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Harold_V » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:56 am

Welcome! Hope it works for you.

Luck!

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Patio
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Location: Centralia Wa

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:58 am

Tonight I got my backing plate turned!

This is a picture of me turning in steps on the outside and then working the inside, cause it was easier to deal with the feeds needed cause of the differences in surface speeds. It may not look like it but I am turning from the center out. I used the cutting tool to mark just outside of the area I needed to leave for the register, which is the center step in this pic.
IMG00370-20101122-2100.jpg
This is the finished backing plate!
IMG00372-20101122-2214.jpg
This is the second project that I have turned to a particular size, as all my other turnings were just making chips to get the feel of the machine. It came out with a, bump to get in on, and a pry to get it off, fit. All and all I am pleased with how it came out. I can not tell you how many passes it took me, but it was a LOT. :)
It is a bit of a messy job, tuning cast iron. I think I might need to take my cross slide off to get all the swarf out from under it.
I also made a transfer punch tonight, that didn't turn out so well. I made it out of the 12L14 that I have. I heat treated it and quenched it in old motor oil. It is still not hard enough to do the job. It is the first project I have turned to a particular size.
IMG00375-20101122-2332.jpg
I do have some mild steel bar stock that I could make a transfer punch out of. Any suggestions on making this punch? I only need it to make 4 marks.
I am going to make the threaded holes of a inch based size, the bolts that came with it are metric.
These only took me 5 hours to make. :)
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Prepare for tomorrow!
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Harold_V
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Harold_V » Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:06 am

Nice job, Pat. The fit you accomplished is excellent. That way, should you have a minor accident (sure to happen as you explore machining), it won't upset the register of the chuck. A loose fit allows for the chuck to move---which is not desirable unless it is an adjustable chuck.

12L14, which is a leaded mild steel, does not heat treat (although most of the mild steel alloys can be pack hardened, with a few exceptions). You should use a medium carbon steel (1045), or greater, or an alloy, such as 4140. Drill rod of all descriptions can also be used with success.

It has been suggested that mild steel can be heat treated with a rapid enough quench, but if that's true, it's beyond the ability of the average guy. Steel starts responding to heat treat at roughly .30% carbon, for all practical purposes.

Keep your eyes open for the availability of Stressproof, which is a medium carbon steel developed by LaSalle Steel Co. The equivalent, by other makers, is 1144. This material machines very well, and can be heat treated, although it can also be used in the condition received. It has a tensile strength of about 125% of mild steel.

A comment about machining cast iron. It is my least favorite material---in spite of having some very nice machining qualities. I hate the dust, and have been known to run a vacuum cleaner that is permanently attached to the back side of the spindle to draw in the graphite. Works great when working on hollow pieces.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:48 am

Todays progress with the lathe.

I got the chuck mounted today. I called the local supply house to see if they sold transfer punches, and he said they did. Off through the snow I went. The snow is also the reason I had time to mess with this today. When I got to the supply house, they did not have the punch I wanted, but the guy let me leave a deposit and I borrowed his personal punch. I used my drill press, operated by hand, to get the tap started properly, as I had seen done, on one of the forums, then finished them by hand so as not to break off the tap. I ran the cap screws through the backing plate and ground them off flush. Not so bad to do with a little info, (Thanks Harold V) and the right tools.
IMG00377-20101123-2038.jpg
With a chuck I was able to face the edges of the 8" pipe, that was given to me by another friend, for the grinder guard. That is was all the swarf is from in the picture above.
IMG00381-20101123-2125.jpg
Now I just need to drill and tap the edges, make the sides, face those edges, cut the opening, attach to the grinder. No problem. I sure do love being able to make the things I need.
I also picked up a piece of cold rolled 2x3" for the milling attachment adapter. Got it chucked upped and faced. Now to grind the tooling I will need and figure out the steppes to turn it.
IMG00380-20101123-2125.jpg
Another good day!
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

Harold_V
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Harold_V » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:22 am

Patio wrote:Another good day!
Indeed!

Again, well done.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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steamin10
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by steamin10 » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:40 am

Not really critical, but the backer I made from a blank, was trimmed to the exact diameter of the chuck, and lightly corner broken, and smoothed withcloth and finally steel wool. You can easily see the joint and its division, but offers no resistance in catching anything.

The jaws hanging out are a hazard of course, and quite common on small machines. It is an excuse for a larger chuck, to avoid the finger whackers.

I hope your sucesses build confidence, and proficiency. We all pass the learning curve.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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Richard_W
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Richard_W » Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:08 am

JackF wrote:Pat,

Although a relative newbie here myself Harold has it spot on. Some carbide insert cutters can take interrupted cuts but most don't like them, especially at the slow speed that a shaper runs. I have run some inserts on interrupted cuts (I am still learning about the cutters likes and dislikes) on a lathe but find I have to dress them often to keep the desired finish. Carbide inserts are best used at high speed and on uninterrupted cuts. Just my observations to date. :D :D

Jack.
On shapers and planers I used a VR Wesson "Ramet 1". It is designed for low speeds and high impact. I have ran for days on one corner using a square negative insert. I haven't seen any of those inserts in quite awhile, but then I haven't ran a shaper or planer in quite awhile either.

But then again I have used a lot of HSS and REX AAA also.

Richard W.

JackF
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by JackF » Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:16 am

Richard,

Thanks for the info as I am always grateful for new insight, there is always something new to learn.

Jack.

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:44 am

Todays progress.
8" pipe faced earlier.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDPh ... 3-2125.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDQO ... 6-1906.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDPr ... 6-1905.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDPp ... 6-1904.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDQO ... 6-1906.jpg
Mock up.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDPx ... 6-2251.jpg
Gap from stress relief, of pipe, after first cut.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDP2 ... 6-2352.jpg
Tools I made to do this job. One the left is a bar I made that fits in the hole of the chuck on the drill press. I had to tap 14 8-32 holes, and I wanted them to be straight, so I chucked up my tap in the drill press and turned it by hand with that bar. In the middle is the arbor I made to hold the sheets of metal that I cut out with a jig saw, so I could turn them round and to size. The small pattern is the bolt layout on the grinder, pall peen hammer method.
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_Oo2H4iWVhes/TPDP4 ... 7-0038.jpg
IMG00395-20101127-0038.jpg
I don't know if any of this is a correct way of doing things, but it worked for me. Next time I would cut the pipe first to relieve the stress.before making the plates, I am going to cut slots, for the existing the bottom two screws, for easy removal of the plate. The other side I used the rope and stick method to get all the screws in.

This project ended up taking priority over all the others. Now I can grind the 3 different tools for turning, and one for the shaper that I need. Things are coming together a bit.
More to come later.
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

EdK
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by EdK » Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:31 am

Pat,

Nice job on the grinder guard. Thanks for posting the pictures. :)

Ed
Vectrax 14x40 lathe, Enco RF-45 clone mill, MillerMatic 180 MIG.

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