The Home Machinist!

I am working on scaling down Kozo's original shay plans to 1:20.3 (F Scale).

Has anyone built a narrow gauge shay based on Kozo's design?

I'm new to the forum and I know how to use my Sherline lathe and mill, but I'm not an expert machinist.
I'm looking forward to learning some new techniques from you folks.

Thanks!

I can't help with your inquiry, Dan, but I'd like to welcome you to the forum.

Harold

_________________
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Hi Dan and welcome!! Dwight Ennis posts on here quite frequently. He has built several small locos I think all narrow gauge. His current post is under my RRSC 4-4-0

_________________
www.jdlocomotiveworks.com

I would like to add something -- What is the difference between the new shay and the old shay? Looking at getting the Shay book from Kozo, and not sure what to get.

Thanks!
Mike

_________________
CEO of Walsh Locomotive Works
http://walshlocomotiveworks.blogspot.com/

Mike:

Kozo's first Shay book is based on the early Shay engines of the 1880s. His second Shay book, The New Shay, is based on a Shay of the 1920s. Both books thoroughly describe the construction of their respective locomotives. The latter book, however, contains additional information about copper boilers, small bolts, O-rings, safety valves.

Hope that helps...

Neil

_________________
Editor - Live Steam & Outdoor Railroading
Allen Mogul under construction
Electric RS3
Stationary Steam

Kozo designs are all based on standard gauge prototypes. If I remember correctly, Ed Hume has built many of Kozo's engines in F scale. At least the Heisler and the Climax he's done. I think the Heisler is shown on the page below but I've also seen the Climax somewhere. You can checkout his site at: http://www.thms.tedatum.com/BBoard/Hume01.html

Ken-

Ed Hume did a gorgeous Kozo Climax in 1:20.3 scale, to include skew bevel gears, exactly to Kozo's plan.. Kozo did the Climax in metric so Ed used a scale of 1mm = 1/32" and slightly adjusted the gauge on the wheels. Everything comes out in inch perfectly and is almost spot on F scale.

Here's Ed's flickr slide show:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/edhume3/sets/72157600964223180/

_________________
Bob Sorenson, Las Vegas, Nevada

Since the Kozo Shay is standard gauge, if you rescale it to F (1' = 15mm), it would make a nice locomotive. The problem I see is when you put the 3' (45mm gauge) narrow gauge trucks under it. This will be too much mis-alignment between the engine shaft (standard gauge locomotive location)and the truck gear shafts. I figure about 10mm. In the plans there is about 1mm offset for the standard gauge loco. The Heisler and Climax do not have this problem. I would suggest some research of prototype NG shays and see how they handled this issue.

I've only see the opposite situation, where they slope outwards to accomodate standard gauge on a smaller locomotive.

For narrow gauge, if you have a boiler that's too big you have to offset it more (messing up the balance) to get the cylinders inwards enough. So it's probably a careful compromise between boiler diameter, offset and cylinder placement.

Here are a few pictures I found with some examples of cylinders sloping outwards to the shaft line for NG to standard gauge. I suppose you could do this in reverse, sloping inwards.

The Heisler is the easiest geared engine to convert gauges back and forth, I believe there is someone out there with an engine that has two sets of trucks, one for 4 3/4" and one for 7 1/2" gauge.

And do check out Ed Hume's pics. He did a stunning job on the Heisler and Climax in Gauge 1 using the above described conversion technique.

I am not sure but he might be doing the Shay as well, haven't talk to him in a while. Ed and I went to Japan and visited Kozo several years ago.

_________________
Allen Models Chloe, MEG Steam "Wendy", 3/4" scale "Anny"
Darjeeling B-Class project - sonadaworks.com
Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com

Harlock,

Would you care to elaborate on your opinion on this?

Thanks,

Doug

_________________
http://www.precisionlocomotivecastings.com/
Building a 70 ton Willamette in 1.6"
Building a 80 ton Climax in 1.6"

"Aim to improve!"
"Mine is not to question why, mine is just to tool and die"

On shay's Lima would tilt the engines any which way needed to get the shafts to line up. It's common on 50+ ton narrow gauge Shays for the engine set to tilt inward.

Here's a good site for reference: http://www.ShayLocomotives.com


Cheers,

Curtis F.

_________________
16 Years of SolidWorks experience...now I feel old.

The main drive shaft runs down the center of the engine, the two cylinders acting like a V-twin. Although I guess the Climax is also center-shafted.

So the shaft doesn't have to line up with one side of the trucks, unlike the Shay. Always in the same place regardless of gauge.

--Mike

_________________
Allen Models Chloe, MEG Steam "Wendy", 3/4" scale "Anny"
Darjeeling B-Class project - sonadaworks.com
Photography and more - www.mikemassee.com