First time poster here, and new to machining!

Topics include, Machine Tools & Tooling, Precision Measuring, Materials and their Properties, Electrical discussions related to machine tools, setups, fixtures and jigs and other general discussion related to amateur machining.

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EdK
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Location: Minnesota

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by EdK » Tue Mar 22, 2011 5:31 am

Patio wrote:
As for it being a paying job, for what I am getting paid vs. my time, I would starve at this rate.
Pat,

Nice job!

I look at those types of jobs as money to purchase more raw material rather than money to buy groceries. :)
Even it you only get paid $5 for that job, that $5 will buy a whole lot more material than you used for the job.

Ed
Vectrax 14x40 lathe, Enco RF-45 clone mill, MillerMatic 180 MIG.

Torch
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Location: Muskoka

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Torch » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:13 am

Harold_V wrote:What was the material type you chose to use?
That was my first thought too. Please don't say aluminium! Aluminium requires special treatment for use in electrical connections.

Personally, I would be very nervous of modifying electrical devices in that manner. You may have just defeated any certification agency label (UL, CSA, CE, Hershey, etc.) Up here in Canada, that is a big no-no and if anything ever happened the person who modified it could be on the hook for damages.

That said, out in an open chandelier like that, the odds of burning down the house are pretty slim -- no nearby combustibles to ignite if it overheats. And it does look like a really nice rivet -- I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use it in a non-electrical application.

stevec
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Location: N.S. Canada

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by stevec » Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:34 am

Torch, let's not give our southern neighbours the impression that we're all quaking in our boots in fear of the CSA gestapo bursting through our doors. :lol:
I have done a number "poor paying" repair jobs on electrical devices and calm myself in the knowledge that my repairs were far superior to the cr*p that bears CSA approval. After all why would it need to be repaired in the first place.
Kudos Pat! (I would've used brass, whimper :oops: )

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:47 am

Hello everybody.

I used some 12L14 I had, I do not have any brass, as I am material poor, but am working on that.
Torch, I am aware of all the codes involved, as I am an electrical contractor. Yes it could violate some of them, but like Steve says, it is probably a better connection than the original, and is in a hanging light fixture, in free air. I am not worried about any possible issue here. I do take safety very seriously. The gal bought the fixture in a close out sale, so it is no longer available. If she could have returned it, I would not have messed with it at all.
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JackF
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by JackF » Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:53 am

Excellent job Pat. Every time I see someone's "fix it" I have a little more knowledge stored. Hopefully in inflow is a little faster than the outflow. :D

Jack.

Torch
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Location: Muskoka

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Torch » Tue Mar 22, 2011 12:06 pm

Please don't misunderstand what I am saying. Yes, the chandelier is in free air, so not as likely to cause a fire (risk of fire is not the only potential hazard of electrical repairs though). And yes, there's some crap out there that never should have received certification in the first place (I have a binder full of recall notices and warnings from the OFM).

I have two concerns: first, I get to deal with the aftermath of faulty homeowner wiring on a regular basis. While a professional such as Patio may have the knowledge and judgment to ameliorate the original design, we don't know that JackF or other potential readers that stumble on this thread in the future will understand the difference between such a repair and a very similar repair in, say, a recessed pot light, were the potential for harm is much greater.

Second is the liability issue. If a product burns down the house, then the insurance pays out and the insurance company goes after the manufacturer. If the manufacturer can show the product was modified, guess who the insurance company will go after next? Insurance companies make the Gestapo look like a bunch of schoolyard bullies and have entire staffs of investigators and lawyers dedicated to recovering their losses. It's one thing to do something for yourself or as a favour for a freind, it's another to do it for hire.

This is not to detract in any way from Patio's nice job on machining a rivet and riveting tool. I think it was a lovely piece of work.

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Tue Mar 22, 2011 7:55 pm

Torch you are exactly right in all you have said. I do have to decide for myself and my company where I draw the line on things like this repair. Just so everyone understands the important part of this job was to make sure that the connection was tight! If it is loose at all it will create heat, which will melt the wiring, and then it is down hill from there.

I also have seen many bad homeowner wiring jobs. I just got finished rewire a shop/home where the original owner had built a shop, with a permit, then built a home inside the shop without a building or electrical permit. Gal buys the place and then discovers all the problems. It cost her some 60K extra to have it all fixed! Not just the wiring, but everything.
Most of the time the difference between what a homeowner does, and what is proper is not much work, but a world of difference in safety.

Being licensed and bonded, I assume responsibility for what I do. I also recommend pulling permits when required to do so, to keep oneself better protected. Not everything can be foreseen, but one must do, do diligence, in the direction of safety.

I do not recommend anyone follow my lead without strict supervision from and expert.
All I need to do now is pass a test and I will have the title of Master Electrician, and the only difference it will make, is I will have another piece of paper to keep my back side clean. :)
More to come later.
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Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Mon Apr 04, 2011 12:50 am

Life is good when one starts to have success pile up in a row.

My success this week are being able to get the shaper to cut how I want is to, when I need it to.
So I made a dial indicator carriage stop, as practice for making the Taper attachment clamp bracket. The only part I had to make twice was the holding screw, only cause I did not pay attention to what the major diameter was before I was past it.

Here are some pictures.
Layout.
P4030048.JPG
Rough finish for test fit.
P4030049.JPG
Finished, test fit.
P4030057.JPG
Holding screw for dial with copper wire press fit into end to protect dial, just before parting off.
P4030061.JPG
Finished product.
P4030063.JPG
Finished product installed.
P4030065.JPG
More to come.
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

Patio
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Location: Centralia Wa

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Tue Apr 05, 2011 2:43 am

More success in the shop tonight.

I bought a piece of steel 3X2X6 inches to make the bracket for the taper attachment. It will be made totally on the shaper. But before I can do that I thought I would see if I could address some of the problems I have been having with its accuracy. It has not been able to cut parallel sides. They always seem to be about .004" out from each other. So tonight I took the vice off and started to do some measuring.

First I removed the vise, adjusted the ram gibs, and measured the table. It is true both front to back and cross ways. So took the vice apart to make sure it was put together properly, and clean between the pieces. I installed the vice back onto the shaper and used a dial indicator attached to the ram head, starting in the lower right corner with it set to 0, and moving the ram and table around to get the measurements.

And this is what I found!
(click on any picture to make them bigger)
P4040066.JPG
The black marks are with the vice jaws perpendicular to the ram travel, and the red marks are with the vice parallel to the ram travel. Any mark with a red plus means it was the same as the black. Being as the only marks that did not come out the same are on the end of the vice that is covered by the moving jaw when open, I did not worry about them. I double checked all my measurements.
With this info I decided that the problem was in the vice and I could use the shaper to correct it. I ground a new tool, as the ones I have are not long enough or the right shape to get to the corner of the jaw with out the tool holder interfering somewhere. I made this tool really sharp with very little rake.
Here is a picture of the beginning of the cutting. I had to start where you see it as the tool has to lay over to get to the corner, which creates and interference on the other end of the vice. The starting line on the right is where the jaw comes to on the vice anyway. I will try to get the whole thing cut once I have finished making my tool holder. (Another project that I have not finished yet).
P4040067.JPG
The finish came out amazingly smoooooooth. You can even still see the previous tooling marks after I took off the .005 inches. It is also pretty true. The only deviation I have found is a .001 difference in the two halves of the cut. The first part is cut, then the tool must cross the gap in the vise to make the second part, and the second part is .001 proud of the first halve of the cut. And it is a even .001 the entire length and with. Go figure!
Here is a picture of the wonderful finish.
P4040079.JPG
For the curious, the vertical line is from where I stopped the advancement of the tool to check the finish before continuing with the cut.
I am so excited, now that I should be able to true up a block with all the sides parallel to each other and square.
I will do some test cutting tomorrow to see how it all came out, and what problems that .001 might cause me. I might have to cut each side of the vice independently to fix it. Not sure yet.

It is getting exciting being able to have things come out to plan.

More to come later. Hope everyone is doing well!
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

Harold_V
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Harold_V » Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:22 am

Way cool, Patio. It's no fun working with tools that yield error. I'm anxiously awaiting the next report, to see how you alteration behaves in use.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Patio
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Location: Centralia Wa

Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:42 am

Tonight I had to leave the shop. Every time I turned around I was making mistakes.
And so it goes. :)
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

Patio
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Re: First time poster here, and new to machining!

Post by Patio » Tue May 17, 2011 12:21 am

If you are interested in seeing my latest projects, in my learning progress, go to the new thread I have created just for them.
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... 24&t=89632
Thanks for looking.
As always comments are welcomed, good or bad, I can handle it.
Live for the moment!
Prepare for tomorrow!
Forgive the past!

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