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 Post subject: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:21 am
Posts: 18
Hi...does anyone have an Optimum BF 30 Vario mill and if so can you give your thoughts on that machine? Thanks,
Rick H.


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:54 am
Posts: 66
Location: Minnesota
Hi,

I tried to buy a BF30 type but was unable to get one. So I settled for a BF20 type from Grizzly here in the US. Only difference was the motor size. Mine is only 1hp rather than 1 1/2hp. Otherwise they are pretty much the same. I really like my mill. Good power for decent cuts in steels and the machine design is pretty rigid. Those who have owned both claim it's better than the Seig X2 and X3's.

These machines are garnering a reputaion for being excellent quality benchtop mills. And they are quickly becoming a favorite of CNC modders.

dalee

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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:09 am 
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:21 am
Posts: 18
Thanks for the reply Dalee. What would constitute a Grizzly type BF20? Rick H.


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Mar 11, 2007 8:54 am
Posts: 66
Location: Minnesota
Hi,

Grizzly lists their model as the G0704. It is the long bed version with 18"/457mm of x axis travel. Which is nice with a 6"/152mm vise on it. The rest of the travels, y & z remain stock.

The only real complaint I can muster against the mill is the low end torque is wanting. But that is the nature of small DC motors with electronic speed control. Stiil, I can run a 3/4"/19mm HSS end mill .100"/2.5mm deep in mild and tool steels at 3 to 4 inches a minute. Pretty good for a benchtop machine.

dalee

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More Speed, More feed!


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:22 pm
Posts: 4
Hi, I have owned the Optimum (TopTech) BF30 for about 1 1/2 years and for the most part it is a very decent mill for its size and cost (if bought from one of the two Canadian dealers). It is a completely different machine then their BF20 (much larger), and all though it shares similarities to the Weiss WMD30LV and Precision Mathew PM-30MV, it is not the same machine/castings/electronics (etc.) from what I was informed. The Optimum BF30 is sold under the TopTech (and others names outside north America) label which is a spinoff from the company that makes the BF30 for Optimum. It is identical as far as I can tell, they even use the exact same manual and parts listing.

The overall fit and finish is good, and accuracy/reproducibility is also good, but it is still made in China, and despite being under "German" supervision, I doubt they had any influence on the basic design of the machine. Quality (finish) seems to be better than say a Sieg or Rong Fu for a similar size machine, but these all have issues. One of the common problems (seen with many Chinese small mills/lathes) I experienced with my BF30 is that they use metric lead screws with English dials for all the axises (I even asked about this in advance and was assured they were English, the company lied to the distributor and the end user). So out of the box, without a DRO, you have a heavy duty drill unless you do a CNC conversion or plan to replace all the lead screws. The manufactures "fix" is to send metric dials after 6 months of "discussion". Not sure if this has been fixed/changed on subsequent BF30's. I added an Acu-Rite DRO. The quill DRO was faulty, bad switches which were soldered to the board incorrectly. The DRO was eventually replaced, after much discussion. The internals/castings were fairly grit free and most parts were decently machined, but fairly soft steels/castings are used. There are a number of idiosyncrasies (poor engineering) specific to this model, and probably other machines of this type. Small things like fine crossfeed on the quill has a fair amount of sloop before it engages, the spindle clamp did not release well (I added a stiff spring so it releases). The handles for the downfeed hit the Z axis handle in the back, I milled a new slot which repositioned the handles and fixed the problem. Most issues are fixable to a degree, but poor engineering and there seems to be no interest in process improvement in most of these small mills. Most of the paint on my BF30 in the bed and T-slots was painted on oiled surfaces, so it needed to be striped, cleaned and repainted with epoxy paint. The rear Z axis chip guard is very nice (like the SX4), but Y axis is poor, a new one was fabricated to cover the front/rear of the Y axis. Oilers could be better positioned, and some thought given to adding a surface to mount a DRO (for the Y axis). Many of the parts are hand fitted, so things like keys and holes are hand filed or drilled to fit. The BF30 is fairly loud out of the box, although not listed in the instructions, I recommend breaking in the gears and bearings similar to what is recommended in the Sieg mill manuals. In each speed range I ran the mill for 10 minutes at ~25%, 50%, 75% and 100% of maximum speed in the forward direction and then repeated the same in the reverse direction. It still had a lot of clatter until I oiled/greased the end support/spindle/thrust bearing which holds the draw bar, move the spindle up and down while doing this. I used oil to flush out the gunk, and then greased it. Once the machine is broken in, I would recommend changing the gear oil. The original gear oil foamed quite a bit. Replacement parts may be a problem getting, as it took me several months to get parts. This may improve with time.

So the good things about the machine. First, I was looking for a mill with decent quality for small projects in different metals and other materials, I considered the WMD30LV, PM-30MV and SIeg SX4 (also sold by Grizzly as the G0720R). Actually ordered the PM-30LV first, but it never came in. The BF20, SX3 etc, were a bit too small for what I was looking for. The Rong Fu 16-20" models are a bit dated in design/function. I wanted something that could be moved without a forklift, i.e. under 700lbs (use an engine hoist), had variable speed, good cutting capacities, decent ergonomics/functions and was under 3K. Since I do a fair amount of machining in aluminum, the Sieg SX4 was a bit limited, as its maximum RPM is 1600, although it is a very robust machine. There is a nice review, and comparison to the smaller models here:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_mill/rev ... x4-rvw.htm .
The BF30 is listed to turn 3300 RPM, in reality it does 2960. Still with 3 gear ranges and a 1500W DC motor, you can pretty much chew through anything you get on the table. I have no problems using 1" end mills or 3" face mills, and the BF30 is quite rigid. There is very little chatter, and cuts are clean and smooth. The tram out of the box was very good, the column is out about 0.002" over 6". The electronics look clean and well made. The fit and finish l would rate to be a bit better then the Sieg SX3/4 based on visuals. The metal base that came with the machine works well and was very sturdy (but poorly painted on the bottom). So at the price point/features, I think the TopTech (Optimum) BF30 is a very good mill, just didn't meet my expectations for a machine that is suppose to have German supervision for design/production. Nevertheless, I think you would need to spend quite a bit more to get a mill that that would bring you up to the next level in quality and capacity.


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:38 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:01 pm
Posts: 18
Hello,

In that price range another mill you may want to check out is one of the RF-45 type mill, if you have space for it. I don't own one (I have a PM20 mill) but the
RF45 mills seem too have a good following with generally good comments. I had a small shop when I got my PM20, I now have a bigger shop and if I was to get another mill it would be a RF45 or its clone.

Matt


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 2:21 am
Posts: 18
Thanks for the replies guys. I really appreciate the information.

Rick H.


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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:29 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:22 pm
Posts: 4
Regarding RF Clones, I was concerned about threads that discussed quality/workmanship issues with the RF45 clones, needless to say I was offered the Precision Matthews PM45M http://precisionmatthews.com/PM45Mbenchmill.html instead of their PM-30MV (which I ordered, but did not come into stock), but the PM45 at 950Lbs was too heavy for me to move. It is a good choice for heavy milling, but would go to a used knee type if I had the space and a forklift. The Toptech (Optimum) BF30 was a good middle road, and I have not had any limitations with its milling abilities.

Question was asked of CNC conversion for the Optimum (Toptech) BF30
They are CNC compatible, Optimum sells parts or the whole system, but big $$$. The machine is actually made with the ability to easily convert to CNC, as opposed to the BF30 clones. There is a lot of information at the CNC forums. I am not aware of any off the shelf ball screws other than those made by Optimum, but a lot of people have had them custom made. The Optimum CNC manual gives all the parts as a guide. Automation technologies inc can sell you kits with everything else, they are a huge source of information/knowledge from what I have read. Machine Tool Warehouse who sells the TopTech BF30 was looking at alternate sourcing for CNC parts, and also sells CNC machines. If I were going to do a conversion, I would probably get the Optimum ball screws and use Automation Technologies for everything else. Need to decide on stepper motor vs servo motor. A few u-tube videos are also available on the CNC conversion of these machines.

Optimum BF30 CNC conversion kit:
http://www.optimum-machines.com/product ... index.html

Optimum BF30 manual, English:
http://www.rustan.ru/sites/default/file ... _st_en.pdf

Optimum BF30 and BF46 CNC mounting instructions, good template on items needed/install:
http://www.rustan.ru/sites/default/file ... ion_gb.pdf

Toptech (Optimum) BF30 oiler system:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_ ... tings.html

Homemade Optimum BF30 CNC conversion lots of info:
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/benchtop_ ... rsion.html

Great source for parts/systems, formally http://www.kelinginc.net
http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/

CNC Conversion, step by step for smaller Sieg
http://www.hossmachine.info/cnc_conversion.html

Full CNC machines at a similar cost of the factory Optimum CNC BF30:
http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_770.html
http://www.tormach.com/product_pcnc_main.html


Attachments:
Toptech BF30 with DRO.jpg
Toptech BF30 with DRO.jpg [ 498.42 KiB | Viewed 3878 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Optimum BF30
PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:31 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:22 pm
Posts: 4
A few additional considerations for this mill are to add a power feed to the X and Z axis if you do not convert it to full CNC. On my Z axis I use an AC 230V 3 phase VFD Bodine gear head motor (34R4BFPP-E3 model 2253) 1/6hp 0-73RPM at 135 ilb-in continuous with a KB Electronics VFD drive. If you use a direct coupler to the top of the Z axis (tapped the coupler with a 13mmx1 thread) you get a travel speed of up to 30 IPM. I also choose to build my own X axis power feed, given some of the dismal problems I have heard/read about the import models. The X axis uses a direct coupled AC 230V 3 phase VFD Bodine gear head motor (30R4BEPP-D3 model 2216) 1/16 hp 0-175RPM at 19 lb-in continuous with a KB Electronics VFD drive. It's good for up to 45 IPM (I usually machine at 5-10 IPM), I use a remote control box that allows variable speed and also has high speed left/right buttons.

KB electronics KBVF drives used run off single phase 230V (also 115V for some models) and are switched with the machine's main power switch. Output of the KBVF used is 230V 3 phase with variable frequency. Motors were purchased surplus so about 1/4 of list prices. Total cost was about the same as an import power feed, if not less. Although the torque on these AC motors may appear low (1 N-m is ~8.9 lb-in), this is continuous throughout their RPM and their peak torque is much higher. No amount of load had any effect on their speed, and I set down the current limiters in the VFD so nothing breaks if you hit the end of travel. Could probably use DC servo motors, but their are advantages to VFD AC drives. Have not installed low voltage limit switches, as all the control switches go to open when released. May reevaluate in the future.

If going full CNC may also consider an AC servo drive which may have some distinct advantages over DC, noticed some discussion for a BF46 using DMM Technologies Corp. system. Link to company if interested.
http://www.dmm-tech.com/


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Axis Drives.jpg
Axis Drives.jpg [ 247.22 KiB | Viewed 3285 times ]
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