The Home Machinist!

I am trying to keep this on one page so I don't have to keep going back and forth looking.
I am looking to buy a small lathe, milling machine surface grinder, small kiln plus a few odds n ends. I would love to have all large table top stuff but I realize it is out of the realm of possibility because of price or a lot of the smaller stuff currently made is junk or they don't hold good tolerances. like the HF and other similar products coming out of china. I have played with a few and was shocked people using those haven't been hurt by lying parts. Wow every single precisions piece had a half inch of play on the ones I have seen. It was scary.
Because prices are a serious issue, I am looking mostly used equipment. I want to build custom knives, custom straight razors,do some gun smithing and customization of parts including anodizing. I haven't had any luck finding the old dual wheel grinders the master razors smiths used 60 plus years ago. .... I am working on a design for my modern day dual wheel grinder that is looking very good on paper and I found the key component. a safe way to hold it and control movement of the piece. I can do certain designs with a surface grinder and those are my favorite grinds to have with anyways. I always loved working with surface grinders. Their precision always amazed me.
I went to college 20 years ago to learn the trade of being a machinist or tool and die maker. I loved it and it was something I really took too. Sadly where I lived I watched the jobs dry up and salaries fell about as quickly as the current economy tanked. A good buddy/ coworker comes from a family of machinist or tool and dye makers. He was the first to not tenet the field for the same reason I choose not to. I always felt bad for his brothers. Really great guys who from each lay off make less and less in a tread they love. I worked in the industry briefly while I waited to get hired by an agency. I remember those guys talking about the good days. We had unlimnited overtime but the pay was okay. I made double my salary when I got hired in my former career. I was making more working for the college as the lab assistant and maintaining the equipment then my friends who were going into the field. After my two and a half years, I began another major as a back up since the Gi bill would pay for 4 years. I ended doing that career for 13 yrs until a spinal injury ruined my career It was supposed to be the other way around. I am familiar with using every thing I have mentioned. I miss working with metal and I have found several areas where I see a need for someone do things that I would enjoy doing plus I have ideas I want to do for fun. I need to keep my mind busy and body busy since getting hurt. The last 4 years of recovering from the injury have been hell. I have a friend who will send work my way once I am up an running. I have another friend who is a a retired machinist and he has offered to help get me back up to speed. my goal is a few hours a day when my pain levels aren't bad. Im looking to work with small light weight stuff so I am not doing heavy lifting. I want the machines to be able to do more so Im not working them at their maximums or if things get better I can do more as well.
I never worked with small machines so I have no idea of what names brands and model numbers to look for. So far it has been like looking for a needle in the hay stack.
For the surface grinder it looks like the 612 models by Harig or KO will best suit my needs. they seem readily available and pop up at decent prices. I saw saw smaller tool grinders but they didn't look like they would do all that I would need and I read about their limitations.
what else should be looking at? Are any of the small lath mill combos decent? what are their limitations. I have came across a few mill drills too? thoughts about those? Bottom line I only have a few thousand to spend to finish getting everything. From what I have seen It can be done, but I have to stay on top of the auctions and other places that have and or sell these items.
I appreciate the help and advice you can give me. I look forward to doing something I have missed for years.
thanks,
Mark

No they don't do anything well and you want to make money with your machines. Which leaves these machines out.



They work fine as a drill press, but leave much to be desired as a mill. You want to do things quickly and a knee mill is the way to go. They make small ones and you can find them used or buy new. But get one with an R8 spindle so you can get decent tooling at affordable prices.

Richard W.

I have one and wouldn't go quite as far as Richard in saying they don't do anything well. However, I don't think they are suitable for a production environment, particularly the milling functions, where one will be constantly switching back and forth between milling and turning. And my experience suggests functionality is certainly a function of how well they are tuned.

Mine is a larger one, with 1.5hp variable speed motors. Low speed torque was an issue until I replaced the cheap SCR controller with PWM ones. (I took the opportunity to re-wire things so both motors could be run at once, providing a powerfeed for the mill). Lathe spindle speed is now from 1 to about 3,000 rpm over two ranges with usable power at all speeds. I had to replace the nylon headstock gears with metal ones to handle the torque. I also modified the change gears a bit for faster switching of ratios. and re-ground the jaws of the cheap Chinese chucks for better run-out. Finally, I replaced the supplied tool post with a QCTP and mounted the compound to a plate so it could be centred on the table. Other than that, the lathe is pretty decent. Last night I was turning 1" SS rebar (416 or monel, I think) down to 3/4" with 0.0003" tolerance over 6" in 25 thou passes. The steel smoked like the devil, but the machine didn't falter.

The mill is definitely the weak half of the equation, and is as much a compromise or afterthought as any milling attachment for any lathe. It suffers from all the faults of any round-column table-top milling machine (some 3-in-1 designs vary in this regard, having different mounting schemes like bridges or dovetails. I can't attest to the efficacy of those designs). Look at it this way: if you are used to a Bridgeport, you will be disappointed. If you are used to a drill press, you will be pleased. My biggest complaint is lack of rigidity, The 4" or so round column is inadequate to the task, and the quill doesn't have enough overlap or a good way to make fine adjustments to the play -- it's OK when locked near the top of it's travel but pretty iffy in the lower half. Making fine depth adjustments when plunging is a bit of a trick -- the "fine" adjuster is too coarse and the lock must be judiciously loosened to keep things aligned while allowing movement.

The motor will handle course heavy cuts, but the round column won't -- too aggressive and the tool will rotate the column causing all kinds of horrible results. Finally, there is no adjustment of table height. The column height can be adjusted to a certain degree, but things must be re-indexed each time as there is no way to keep it from rotating when changing the height. The range of adjustment is limited to 4" so short workpieces need to be raised up off the table with a riser block, accessory tilt table, or similar trick to keep from having to drop the quill very far. It would also be nice if the table had a third T-slot, running down the centre. On the plus side, the mill spindle speed is up to 5,000 rpm over two ranges, overall costs are lower since it shares the table, DRO, etc. with the lathe and the overall footprint is smaller than two separate machines of equal capacities.

With time and care and judicious cuts, it is possible to work within 1 thou tolerances even in tough materials, but the mill in particular is definitely more suitable for a home hobbyist with limited space and cash but lots of time than for production.

(Mind you, an Afghani gunsmith fixing AK-47s with a file in a cave would increase his production a thousandfold, so I could be wrong in that assumption )