A Real Dirty Job

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Carrdo
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A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Fri May 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Digging deeper into the Langworthy/Yankee Shop Hudson firebox.

Believe me, it was a real dirty job and not what the picture shows after the cleanup.
Attachments
39 Underside of Firebox with Ashpan Removed.JPG

chooch
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by chooch » Sat May 10, 2014 7:59 am

Carrdo.
To be sure,Is this the same Hudson that the Waushakum club just finished getting a New boiler for the "old" Yankee shop locomotive. I read it just got it`s First firing a very short time ago (a week or so back?)
Carrdo wrote:Digging deeper into the Langworthy/Yankee Shop Hudson firebox.

Believe me, it was a real dirty job and not what the picture shows after the cleanup.

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Sat May 10, 2014 8:09 am

Hi Chooch,

I don't think so. This one is Canadian built. There were many, many Langworthy/Yankee Shop NYC Hudsons built in their day (mid 1930's to the late 70's?).

After a long absence they are again being supplied. Just Google "Friends Models Yankee Shop".

elm53
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by elm53 » Sat May 10, 2014 2:20 pm

You're just the man for the job Cardo! A little dirt is good for the soul.The work you and RET showed Steaming Don and I looked like it came from a surgery !
Chooch,the Langworthy\Yankee\Friends huson is 3\4 " scale..3 1\2 " gauge. The locomotive you are refering to is Lester Friend's Joytown hudson which is 1 ½" scale. And 7 ¼" gauge. There is info on this engine on this site under Calvert Holt also.

chooch
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by chooch » Sat May 10, 2014 10:08 pm

Thank you all for the info and differences. It`s the Yankee shop that threw me off and the fact working on the firebox and the new boiler for Lester Friends Hudson just fired at the Waushakum club (Mass).
Some days you can`t make a dishonest dime. :roll:

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LVRR2095
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by LVRR2095 » Mon May 12, 2014 6:14 pm

Carrdo wrote:Digging deeper into the Langworthy/Yankee Shop Hudson firebox.

Believe me, it was a real dirty job and not what the picture shows after the cleanup.
So Don.....will you be able to salvage those grates. :D
Keith

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Tue May 13, 2014 9:39 am

Hi All,

As a well known workplace writer once famously said "work expands to fill the time available" and that certainly seems to be true in my case.

This all started out as a project to replace the grates but first I had to get at the underside of the locomotive to determine exactly the shape of the firebox mud ring opening as this, in many cases, is not truly rectangular or symmetrical.

Off came the rear trailing truck (or as I discovered the trailing truck wouldn't come off at first due to a bent king pin but the bronze trailing truck frame itself turned out to be fine - what a relief for small mercies). I am certain from what I have seen, this locomotive fell off the elevated track more than once in its life. Made a new king pin.

Then half of the fasteners used in the trailing truck were discovered to be snapped off due to their being corroded/welded in. Lots of my special micro drilling treatment after a weeks soaking in penetrating oil or boiling in a liquid alum solution didn't quite work (a few times the penetrating oil worked but boiling in an alum solution gave me no results at all).

Then the fasteners themselves were found to be all 4-36 NS (national special) not NC or NF as this is what is shown on the 1935 Langworthy drawings. Went to a well known fastener supplier here and got very lucky as I got a supply of the last 4-36 NS fasteners available in Canada (as I really didn't want to start oversize drilling/re-threading everywhere). NS threads were considered to be obsolete in the 1950's. Actually, 4-36 NS threads I found to be very suitable for model locomotive work in 3/4" scale - ironic isn't it.

Then the trailing truck spring equalizers were found to be all seized up with goo and crud and with with suspension parts missing or wired together. More thorough cleaning and the making of new parts.

Then the heart shaped rockers were found to be missing (I now have new ones half finished). I like the Josslin Hudson heart shaped rockers better than the Langworthy design as the Josslin rockers have only one massive leg (not two as with the Langworthy) with a large swivel pin through the single leg so the rocker(s) can't flip out of the rocker pocket(s) if the locomotive rides hard over a bump. And both designs look the same unless one looks closely at the details.

Then I had to try and remove the ash pan without taking the entire locomotive apart. More corroded fasteners here which I removed with a 1/4" wide hacksaw blade held between my fingers which took a lot of my skin off by the time I finished as I had to push and pull the blade by hand as there is simply no room to get at anything. The ash pan is one area where the Langworthy drawings lack much detail so one is left to improvise. Actually, the ash pan detail on this locomotive is very good; once the fasteners were removed, the ash pan just snapped out with some fiddling. I will make a new three piece ash pan based on the existing one which will be removable in sections for ease of installation and removal (this is yet to do).

Then I noticed the locomotive is missing the drawbar and the safety bar to the tender. Another job.

Back to the grates where this all started- they are half done and will be made three piece to be removable through the fire door. I also make my grates with 2 degree taper on each side to allow ash and to slag fall through into the ash pan easily. The new grates will be made out of my favourite hot rolled structural steel with all stainless bolts and pins.

What else there is to do, I only have to look.

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Tue May 13, 2014 10:20 am

Some photos of the heart shaped rocker machining carried out to date.

As usual, probably too much detail but if there are any questions I will answer them.
Attachments
Bandsaw Cuts for the Beginning of the Heart Shaped Rocker Legs.png
Roughed Out Rocker Legs by Bandsawing and Ball End Milling.png
Milling the Lower Rocker Sections.png
Shaping the Rounded Rocker Leg Ends.png
The Finished Rocker Legs.png

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Sun May 18, 2014 10:04 pm

The final photos on the machining of the heart shaped rockers.

When clamping the rockers on the rotary table, make certain that the setup is fully secure or things can and will move when you don't want them to.
Attachments
46 Setup to Machine the Rocker Outer Curves.png
47 Fixture Used for Locating Rockers on Rotary Table.png

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Sun May 25, 2014 9:22 pm

Further into the beast. Not exactly operating room conditions!

The amount of corrosion and corrosion products, welded on scale, ash, dirt and other hardened guck and goo was truly something.

The boiler mud ring itself looks like it is welded copper and a very nice job it appears to be!!

I had to use every trick I know to remove the totally corroded/welded in steel cap screws holding the the cast iron grate baseplate casting to the boiler mud ring.

As I suspected, there are a number of snapped off steel fasteners buried in the boiler mud ring. I guess others tried to do what I am doing but without success.

The copper boiler mud ring area itself looks excellent but the steel fasteners/any steel/cast iron parts are another story entirely.

I will replace all of the snapped off boiler mud ring fasteners with pure copper or hard bronze fasteners as there is virtually no load carried by any of these bolts.

If this was a steel boiler, it would be scrap.

Can I repeat what I said previously, with a copper boiler, particularly anywhere around the firebox, use only copper or a good hard bronze fastener and apply an anti seize compound when installing them. As LBSC used to say "nuf said".
Attachments
49 Boiler Mud Ring Exposed.png

Harold_V
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Harold_V » Mon May 26, 2014 12:56 am

Carrdo wrote:As I suspected, there are a number of snapped off steel fasteners buried in the boiler mud ring. I guess others tried to do what I am doing but without success.

The copper boiler mud ring area itself looks excellent but the steel fasteners/any steel/cast iron parts are another story entirely.
I fail to see the issue. Copper will not dissolve in dilute sulfuric acid, but both steel and cast iron will. Applied cold, the broken bits will eventually release and can then be extracted.

Note that copper oxide does dissolve in sulfuric acid.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Carrdo
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Re: A Real Dirty Job

Post by Carrdo » Mon May 26, 2014 4:21 pm

OK guys I need your advice here.

I have sulphuric battery acid but I need to build a dam around each of the snapped off steel bolts as they project just beyond or are at the the surface of the copper mud ring.

Can I use a silicone seal caulking for this as I need something which will stick to the copper and also not react with the sulphuric acid and can be build up as a dam to contain the acid. Otherwise, I will have to remove the boiler and fix up a large acid bath neither of which I really want to do unless absolutely necessary.

I can use my micro drilling technique which has worked for me but I am willing to try the sulphuric acid.

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