LITTLE ENGINES

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James Powell
Posts: 318
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:42 pm

Re: LITTLE ENGINES

Post by James Powell » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:14 am

WJH wrote:
Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:23 pm
My thoughts... I like to build 3d models of engines from books, like the Kozo A3, and various others. People ask me to send them the files. I refuse to do so, simply because one can make 2d prints from the models, and build the engine without ever paying the original person for the said plans. The information is embedded in those 3d models.
Can you not make it into a single line drawing so that it can't be disassembled into its components? (or export it as a single image, then paste it into a pdf or word document as a JPEG, not a dxf file ? )I seem to think I did this in 2002, and was shown how earlier than that (perhaps 1993 with AutoCad) ?

That being said, for example, the Kozo drawings are all in Live Steam, and while they are copyright, they are certainly available to the general public...it just takes being smarter than a box of hammers to figure out how to get them. (a bit like building Tich without a copy of the book- easy enough if you have the Model Engineers...or know what libraries have copies, or know a friend of a friend...). Mind, for $30, I'm not going to put a lot of effort into said techniques...

https://www.discoverlivesteam.com/books ... tcher.html

It might be cheaper just to buy the book than photocopy the issues of LS @ a public library...

Less someone think it can't be done, I went and got copies of Petrolia (LBSC) in probably 1992 or so, from Metro Toronto Reference Library, because at that point our Model Engineer library @ home didn't include said issues. I also did the same thing for the Sentinel style engine from the 50's, which uses a D-10 as the engine...a good research project prior to the internet.

There appear to be some people on here who think that the drawings are sacrosant, and that any attempt to use someone elses copy to make something is totally evil, and that you should perhaps have to buy a 2nd copy to make a 2nd loco, or a copy if you need to fix an existing engine...to which, I think their heads are in the clouds. I also know that there is an ongoing issue with someone who appears to be copying existing in copyright drawings and then selling them as a drawing set. My personal take is that somewhere in the middle is the real answer, in that if you make a CAD drawing of an engine, it probably is YOUR copyright, not the person who drew it by pencil & paper, but that distributing it unless the existing drawing was in the public domain (printed in a magazine, or explicitly allowed by the owner of the original drawing, or over 49 years since original designer's death) is poor sport at best. If it is reduced to a rendered view, or series of rendered views, then it is no different than taking a photo of an object, and as such it is probably your copyright clear. However, distributing workable copies of the drawings if they are not exempt as ^, is to my mind, poor taste at best.

Imagecyl ports4 by Peach James, on Flickr
(there you go, a CAD drawing rendered without any easy ability to reverse engineer it...)

James

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Greg_Lewis
Posts: 1573
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
Location: Fresno, CA

Re: LITTLE ENGINES

Post by Greg_Lewis » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:28 am

James Powell wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:14 am

...

My personal take is that somewhere in the middle is the real answer, in that if you make a CAD drawing of an engine, it probably is YOUR copyright, not the person who drew it by pencil & paper,
...

If it is reduced to a rendered view, or series of rendered views, then it is no different than taking a photo of an object, and as such it is probably your copyright clear. However, distributing workable copies of the drawings if they are not exempt as ^, is to my mind, poor taste at best.

...
This is a common misconception. The legal name for such a work is "derivative work." If you incorporate someone else's work into yours, you do not escape copyright. Making a CAD drawing from someone else's 2-D pencil drawing most certainly would be considered a derivative work and subject to copyright restrictions.

If you're doing it for yourself, there is no problem, but if you are doing it for distribution to others, for free or for sale, that causes financial damage to the original creator. That's what copyright is about.

From the U.S. Copyright office FAQ page: "Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent." https://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq- ... ml#howmuch

Here's a link to a famous derivative works case: https://cpyrightvisualarts.wordpress.co ... eff-koons/
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of non-interchangeable parts.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 30 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.

WJH
Posts: 1401
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:29 pm
Location: Florida

Re: LITTLE ENGINES

Post by WJH » Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:28 pm

Yes, I can post screen shots of the 3d model, that isn’t the issue. People wanted my actual cad files

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