Not bad looking either: SteveBill Shields wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:19 pm absolutely the best place to start..a solid proven design that doesn't require a home mortgage or 3 decades to build.
Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
- backyardrails
- Posts: 231
- Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2004 8:08 pm
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Sorry, I had to post this one. The Raritan has alway been my favourite. It steams well and purrs nicely along the track.
Bernie
Bernie
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Thank you to everyone who has responded so far and I appreciate all of the advice. It appears the general consensus is that Brass/Bronze and cast iron are much preferred over aluminum which I expected to be the case but it doesn't hurt to ask.
What I struggle with when reading forum posts or a build construction article sometimes the author says use "brass" or "bronze" but they do not give any further detail. When calling a local metal shop they always ask what "type" of steel or other material I am looking for and then I quickly feel foolish as I haven't a clue. I have a similar experience online; going to one of the online supply websites you will find many different alloys to choose from.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/productgui ... sguide.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass
From the reading/research I have done I am thinking that in the model engineering world "Brass" castings are typically "Red brass" otherwise called "gunmetal" and any brass bar stock used is C360 "free machining brass."
What I struggle with when reading forum posts or a build construction article sometimes the author says use "brass" or "bronze" but they do not give any further detail. When calling a local metal shop they always ask what "type" of steel or other material I am looking for and then I quickly feel foolish as I haven't a clue. I have a similar experience online; going to one of the online supply websites you will find many different alloys to choose from.
https://www.onlinemetals.com/productgui ... sguide.cfm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass
From the reading/research I have done I am thinking that in the model engineering world "Brass" castings are typically "Red brass" otherwise called "gunmetal" and any brass bar stock used is C360 "free machining brass."
-Frank K.
- Bill Shields
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Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Just stay away from aluminum bronze unless you really know what you are getting in to.
Too many things going on to bother listing them.
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
don't use brass for steam fittings
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Bronze is fine. This was a discussion on Kozo's A3 book where he said to use free machining brass. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but the high steam temperatures over time caused the brass to break down?
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Red brass is most likely the old standard 85-5-5-5 alloy, which consists of copper, lead, tin and zinc.
Color, alone, can't be relied upon to determine whether an alloy is bronze or brass. In the case of "red brass", as above, it's both bronze and brass.
The line that separates bronze from brass is fuzzy, although a zinc alloy is generally considered brass, while a tin alloy is considered bronze.
Bill suggested one not tangle with aluminum bronze. True enough, but it's a walk in the park when compared to manganese bronze, which is the copper alloy equivalent of titanium when one must do the machining.
H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
- Greg_Lewis
- Posts: 3020
- Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 2:44 pm
- Location: Fresno, CA
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
That was back in 2003. I did a test with an infrared thermometer. You can find the data here:Rich_Carlstedt wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:26 pm A number of years ago, and I believe it was here on Chaski, there was a discussion about smoke boxes and materials.
Temperatures were measured on various locomotives and some were in the 700+ (F) range and others only 550 degrees.
I do not remember if this was also related to coal, oil, or propane fired locos.
...
Rich
http://www.chaski.org/homemachinist/vie ... box#p16207
The flaw in my test is that I did not test all locos under different conditions, i.e. running uphill under load, idling in the yard, etc. I suspect that running uphill with the increase in exhaust results in a slightly cooler smokebox than sitting in the yard. The average reading from 23 readings taken from the outside surface of the smokebox is 323°F. The high extreme was 470°F, the low extreme was 249°F. There was one engine whose readings were way high and was not included in the average. All the engines were either oil or propane.
Greg Lewis, Prop.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Eyeball Engineering — Home of the dull toolbit.
Our motto: "That looks about right."
Celebrating 35 years of turning perfectly good metal into bits of useless scrap.
Re: Metallurgy of Steam Engines
Another point that has not been mentioned is the fact that brass , red or yellow and most bronzes are readily soldered with soft or hard solders.
Aluminium is not easy to solder (yes it can be done but not as easily) .A beginner , who is probably cost conscious , will almost certainly need to repair mis-machined parts rather than scrap them.
Dan.
Aluminium is not easy to solder (yes it can be done but not as easily) .A beginner , who is probably cost conscious , will almost certainly need to repair mis-machined parts rather than scrap them.
Dan.