First cut with a shaper

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philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Mon May 28, 2018 5:42 pm

I have a lot to learn


Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by Harold_V » Mon May 28, 2018 11:34 pm

It didn't appear to me that the clapper was functioning. That's important if you hope to preserve the cutting edge of the tool, which can be destroyed on the return stroke. I also noticed a huge amount of swarf (in the true sense of the word--not chips, but minute particles) around the part, which is a sign the tool is not properly ground, or that it has already been destroyed.

Do you understand how cutting tools work? (No, I'm not trying to be rude). If you don't, it may not be clear to you how the tool should be ground. That's key to good performance.

Nice looking little shaper, by the way. Looks to be in nice condition.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Tue May 29, 2018 12:11 am

Oh I have no doubt the tool has completely the wrong grind for a shaper - I literally grabbed the first tool I saw, which happened to be a brazen carbide one from the 'starter set' that came with my small lathe.

It is a nice shaper. As far as I know it was a "new old stock" item, made in 1979, and cleaned up by my late father during the 2000s. I'll need to get a vice to suit it - I note there are T slots on the perpendicular face for this purpose.

Will need to watch the few YouTube videos on shaper tool grinds now!

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Tue May 29, 2018 12:12 am

I also noted the head was rotating under heavier cuts - the tightening mechanism doesn't feel great - it may need cleaning up and adjustment

Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by Harold_V » Tue May 29, 2018 12:19 am

philbert wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 12:11 am
Oh I have no doubt the tool has completely the wrong grind for a shaper - I literally grabbed the first tool I saw, which happened to be a brazen carbide one from the 'starter set' that came with my small lathe.
I'm sorry to say I didn't notice the tool was carbide (and it doesn't really matter what type, be it an insert tool or a brazed tool). That is not a good choice, especially with a non-functioning clapper. Carbide is not well known for its tensile strength, so the tip is readily pulled off on the return stroke. That may well be the reason for all the swarf I noticed.

Use HSS for your shaper, and if you don't understand cutter geometry, just ask, as many of us on the board will gladly share what we know, getting you up and running reliably.

You will be very well served to spend a little time learning to offhand grind HSS cutting tools. When you have the ability to grind any form you desire, there's not much you can't accomplish without buying more and more tooling, tooling that often is used only once.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Tue May 29, 2018 12:23 am

Yep, understood - as I said, it was the first to hand. You're correct - the clapper box was seized up, thankfully it came free after a few gentle taps with a rubber mallet.

f350ca
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Location: Calabogie Ontario

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by f350ca » Tue May 29, 2018 5:55 pm

I agree with Harold on using HSS but I've had good results with brazed carbide cutters on large cast iron parts where the HSS would dull before finishing the face.

Greg

Harold_V
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Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by Harold_V » Wed May 30, 2018 3:31 am

I expect you'd have good results with insert tooling, too, especially negative rake, when machining cast iron, even aluminum or brass. Negative rake would resist chipping on the return stroke, especially with the clapper operating properly. For steel, or tougher materials? Not so much. Carbide doesn't enjoy interrupted cuts, which often lead to tip failure.

I've commented on the use of carbide for fractional horse power lathes, too, and agree that carbide has its place with them, especially when machining cast iron. Abrasion is often the enemy. Many of the benefits of carbide are lost in most cases, though. Rigidity, proper speed and power are pretty important if one hopes to reap the benefits offered by (brittle) carbide.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Wed May 30, 2018 3:34 am

I took a cut with a HSS tool, and it was a cleaner cut. I was going to try my diamond tangential tool holder to see how that went, but it was about 1/64th too wide to fit in the clapper box

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Wed May 30, 2018 3:35 am

Part of the problem is that is a piece of corten steel cut out of the roof of my shipping container workshop. I'll mount a vice and try again with a known free machining steel

Harold_V
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Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by Harold_V » Wed May 30, 2018 3:40 am

Some of the fabrication alloys are not great to machine, but then neither is common low carbon steel. However, the switch to HSS should eliminate the chief problem, that of tip failure, assuming you haven't ground a tool with excessive rake and/or clearance. Let us know how you're doing. :wink:

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

philbert
Posts: 21
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:51 am

Re: First cut with a shaper

Post by philbert » Wed May 30, 2018 6:51 am

So I milled down the toolholder a little (it's a left handed one - never used it in the lathe anyway) and mounted it in the shaper. Looks like it's working quite well (nice chips start around 0:50 in the video). Another thing I realized is that the indexing crank was 180° out, so it was moving the table while making the cut, rather than on the return stroke. The dust everywhere is the very thick paint on the material.


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