Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
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germaneighter
- Posts: 36
- Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2015 2:28 pm
- Location: Owasso, OK
Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
I have an old Brideport vise that has years of crud and surface rust on it. I don't think I've ever read of someone bead blasting an old milling vice as part of a resturation. Is there any reason not to do this? thanks
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Aside from altering the appearance, I don't think you'll do anything to damage the vise by blasting. That's assuming the beads are not breaking down. If they're deteriorating, they tend to act much like an abrasive (they cut instead of peen). I do recommend you completely dismantle, however. Otherwise, you'll find glass beads inside, where they shouldn't be, and you won't have a way to remove them.
I strongly recommend you degrease before blasting, assuming you make that your choice.
H
I strongly recommend you degrease before blasting, assuming you make that your choice.
H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
As Harold mentions dismantle it and protect areas such a the top sliding surfaces. I wouldn't use glass beads but rather crushed glass in a 50/100 or even a 100/200 grit as it will act as a cleaning agent without disrupting the metals surface. Setting your blaster up to approx. 40 PSI should be perfect.
Vision is not seeing things as they are, but as they will be.
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johnfreese
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:10 am
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
I have done it. It works well. Not great on thick greasy crud. Scrape it off first.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Yeah, soft materials are a great barrier for blasting. Fact is, it's soft rubber that is used in masking tomb stones so they can be "engraved" (sand blasted). It's readily available in rolls, with a self adhesive backing. Apply the rubber, then remove the portion you want to engrave. Hard rock is very quickly cut that way.
I used that same rubber (1/16" thick) to line the interior of my blast cabinet (to prevent creating holes). It's just now starting to fail, but only because it's gotten hard. It's been more than 25 years. It was never perforated in use, so it's extremely resistant to abrasion.
Traces of grease on objects to be blasted slow down the process something fierce, and it's never a good idea to introduce any to your blasting media. That's why I suggested degreasing before blasting. I try to keep my media free from oils so they flow properly.
H
I used that same rubber (1/16" thick) to line the interior of my blast cabinet (to prevent creating holes). It's just now starting to fail, but only because it's gotten hard. It's been more than 25 years. It was never perforated in use, so it's extremely resistant to abrasion.
Traces of grease on objects to be blasted slow down the process something fierce, and it's never a good idea to introduce any to your blasting media. That's why I suggested degreasing before blasting. I try to keep my media free from oils so they flow properly.
H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Since we are on the topic of blasting I'll have to post a new thread on my recent upgrade I'm working on to my cabinet with a kit from Tacoma Co. They manufacturer a system for blasting that only requires 2 or 3 cups of media at a time and pressures as low as 4 psi for custom profiling like I require for my fishing reels. It's quite cool.
Vision is not seeing things as they are, but as they will be.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
I'm keenly interested in reading those comments.
As I use my cabinet primarily for cleaning (rust, fire scale) and the items are generally not sensitive to alteration, I tend to blast at high pressure. Makes things happen a lot faster. I run my air line @ 100 psi, and that's how I blast. I've lowered the pressure on a few occasions when I didn't want abrasion, but that also slows the cleaning process. That would also alter how the media behaves, such as your recommendation to use crushed glass. If it's fine enough, and pressure is low enough, it most likely does no harm, but degraded glass bead at high pressure cuts quite nicely, and it's not significantly different from crushed glass (that's pretty much what it becomes).
H
As I use my cabinet primarily for cleaning (rust, fire scale) and the items are generally not sensitive to alteration, I tend to blast at high pressure. Makes things happen a lot faster. I run my air line @ 100 psi, and that's how I blast. I've lowered the pressure on a few occasions when I didn't want abrasion, but that also slows the cleaning process. That would also alter how the media behaves, such as your recommendation to use crushed glass. If it's fine enough, and pressure is low enough, it most likely does no harm, but degraded glass bead at high pressure cuts quite nicely, and it's not significantly different from crushed glass (that's pretty much what it becomes).
H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Me too. I've got a rather large cabinet, big enough to put a few 16" truck wheels in. Either from the big door on one end, or the front side with the glove holes is split so it slides to each side for smaller items. It has a return funnel built into the base below the expanded metal work surface, and a 4" line going to a cyclone separator with suction/propulsion driven by 1(?) HP Baldor motor, and "fines" ejected out the back. It sounds like a turbine engine idling when it's running, very loud, and the fines are a problem for everything within 20 yards or more.
Between the fines problem and getting it out of my shop to run, I find I rarely use it even when it's the ideal tool. Since I live in Phoenix with nearly no rust problems, I wanted to store it out under my awning, and build a water bath on the ejection side to manage most of the fines. But a friend who had done that with a similar large cabinet advised against it. He said it was in good shape when put out there, but due to the perpetually raw steel surfaces generated by blasting, it developed terminal rust in only a few years.
With all that said, I'm interested in what you said about the rubber sheets used for granite etching. When I got it, the cyclone separator had abraded a hole in its case from the returned abrasive stream. I already was already on that path when I welded it up as I used a layer of silicone to provide a (hopeful) protective layer where the abrasive is hitting. But now I'm thinking maybe just clean it out and paint the inside to seal it up, and then line it with your rubber mask sheets. Same sheet also as an upgrade for the cyclone hopper repair. The turbine impeller also has severe erosion with a few perforations, which I suspect is part of why it's SO loud. Finding a replacement for that is much lower on priorities, and zero if I can't get it more generally useful.
No idea if that's practical, or will prevent decay, but storing it outside my shop would make it FAR more useful.
Question is, where do you get such sheets?
Between the fines problem and getting it out of my shop to run, I find I rarely use it even when it's the ideal tool. Since I live in Phoenix with nearly no rust problems, I wanted to store it out under my awning, and build a water bath on the ejection side to manage most of the fines. But a friend who had done that with a similar large cabinet advised against it. He said it was in good shape when put out there, but due to the perpetually raw steel surfaces generated by blasting, it developed terminal rust in only a few years.
With all that said, I'm interested in what you said about the rubber sheets used for granite etching. When I got it, the cyclone separator had abraded a hole in its case from the returned abrasive stream. I already was already on that path when I welded it up as I used a layer of silicone to provide a (hopeful) protective layer where the abrasive is hitting. But now I'm thinking maybe just clean it out and paint the inside to seal it up, and then line it with your rubber mask sheets. Same sheet also as an upgrade for the cyclone hopper repair. The turbine impeller also has severe erosion with a few perforations, which I suspect is part of why it's SO loud. Finding a replacement for that is much lower on priorities, and zero if I can't get it more generally useful.
No idea if that's practical, or will prevent decay, but storing it outside my shop would make it FAR more useful.
Question is, where do you get such sheets?
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
What about painting the items with a rubberized truck bed liner product Russ? Or MSC, McMaster Carr etc sell a variety of rubber sheets and the easy to get contact adhesive would be more than enough to bond it in place. In mining the conveyor shute's and just about everything in the grinding and milling process involves huge volumes of highly abrasive rock. Even the big ball mills get rubber faced bolted in replaceable liners. Lot's of parts get sent out to specialty firms for rubber lining bonded in place as the rubber will still wear out over enough time, but that's way to expensive for home shop parts. Can you hook a shop vac up to your blast cabinet with the vac's exhaust run outside for the dust?
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Great ideas. The rubberized bed liner stuff would be a logical extension of my initial silicone lining.
As for hooking to a shop vac, this thing would likely over pressure any shop vac I might find. No idea what would be the first to give, but this thing moves a LOT of air, though not sure what pressures might be achieved with restriction. What I had in mind was something similar to the old oil-bath automotive air filters of the 50s. Something along the lines of a small poly barrel with a 4" pipe extending to the bottom of the barrel, fitted with a diffuser of some sort, barrel filled with 20" or so of water, and with a vertical exhaust tube from the top of the barrel (20" + above the water level) of mabe 6+" ABS pipe rising up 6 or so feet to prevent mass exodus of the water while running. Or, maybe a second (smaller) barrel to act as an expansion chamber to contain ejectorate from the primary, possibly setup as a cyclone extractor.
Should act as both a muffler, and substantial reduction in fines floating through the area. Not entirely sure that's practical, but that's the idea that's been rattling around in my head for a few years.
As for hooking to a shop vac, this thing would likely over pressure any shop vac I might find. No idea what would be the first to give, but this thing moves a LOT of air, though not sure what pressures might be achieved with restriction. What I had in mind was something similar to the old oil-bath automotive air filters of the 50s. Something along the lines of a small poly barrel with a 4" pipe extending to the bottom of the barrel, fitted with a diffuser of some sort, barrel filled with 20" or so of water, and with a vertical exhaust tube from the top of the barrel (20" + above the water level) of mabe 6+" ABS pipe rising up 6 or so feet to prevent mass exodus of the water while running. Or, maybe a second (smaller) barrel to act as an expansion chamber to contain ejectorate from the primary, possibly setup as a cyclone extractor.
Should act as both a muffler, and substantial reduction in fines floating through the area. Not entirely sure that's practical, but that's the idea that's been rattling around in my head for a few years.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper
Master Floor Sweeper
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
Hmmm. That's a good question. It would help if a guy knew the name of the product involved. I recall going to the maker of headstones to buy what I used, and that was many years ago, as I mentioned. With the proper name, it shouldn't be difficult to find and buy. Wish I knew more.
Here's a link that shows some being applied, and the results of blasting.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ho ... &FORM=VIRE
I may have found a source for the masking material. Give this a try:
https://www.hittmarking.com/category/sa ... -stencils/
H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
Re: Glass Bead Blasting Old Mill Vice
BadDog, you can buy sheet rubber from MMC with or without adhesives on the back. In many thicknesses. It's what I used to line my one vibratory finisher. Look under the "Abrasion-Resistant Polyurethane Rubber Sheets, Bars, and Strips" subtitle
https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber
Harold, Your setup sounds perfect for the type of blasting you require. As you mention my setup requires more control for texturing and surface finish so different medias and pressures. They tell me if I keep my pressures under 20 psi the beads will last for a very long time as you are doing more peening than abrading. Regardless of research I have a lot of testing to do to refine, or "dial in" the process for my application.
https://www.mcmaster.com/rubber
Harold, Your setup sounds perfect for the type of blasting you require. As you mention my setup requires more control for texturing and surface finish so different medias and pressures. They tell me if I keep my pressures under 20 psi the beads will last for a very long time as you are doing more peening than abrading. Regardless of research I have a lot of testing to do to refine, or "dial in" the process for my application.
Vision is not seeing things as they are, but as they will be.