Hunting for Hudsons (Yankee Shop in 3/4" Scale)

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Carrdo
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Hunting for Hudsons (Yankee Shop in 3/4" Scale)

Post by Carrdo » Mon Feb 06, 2006 10:38 pm

Hello Folks,


I would like to ask the members if anyone has the model drawings for the Yankee Shop/Langworthy Hudson in 3/4" scale?

In doing research on the Hudson which I am building, an old 1970 Yankee Shop catalogue indicates there are a total of 24 drawings relating to this model. I seem to have 22 of them (some of which are faded but still readable).

The missing prints appear to be:

H-12 "Pilot Beam and Couplers"
24H "Ash Pan Details"


If anyone might still have this design and would be willing to copy or scan the two drawings, I would be happy to reimbures all costs.

The Hudson under construction started out as a Carl Hoffman design but as construction proceeded more and more Yankee Shop details were/are being added.

The two designs are quite different so an entirely new set of problems has been created but I can't complain about that!
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Hoffman  Hudson in 2002.jpg
Hoffman Hudson in 2002.jpg (182.79 KiB) Viewed 2142 times

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Jim_Nolan
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Post by Jim_Nolan » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:15 am

I have both drawings that I scanned and cleaned up using Scan2Cad. H24 is about 190Kb and H12 about 350 so not that onerous if you want them e-mailed.

Don’t get your hopes up for H24 mind as it’s no more than a pencil sketch with basic dimensions added.

So if no one can help you on your side of the pond, send me a private message with your email address and I will send them over.

Great looking model BTW.

Jim

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Andypullen
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Post by Andypullen » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:13 am

Nice work, as usual, Don...

Andy Pullen
Clausing 10x24, Sheldon 12" shaper, ProtoTrak AGE-2 control cnc on a BP clone, Reed Prentice 14" x 30", Sanford MG 610 surface grinder, Kalamazoo 610 bandsaw.

Bill Shields

Drawings

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:19 am

Andy:

I have the drawings, and a finished Hudson that I built in the late 70's

Bill

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Carrdo
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Post by Carrdo » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:37 am

Bill,

Any chance of a few pictures?

Have a look at the site http://www.zawarski.com/esm/. Is that a Langworthy/Yankee Shop Hudson pictured there?

In correspondence with C. Purinton, he once indicated that the original Langworthy model was never quite completed. Also, that the first 10 or so Hudsons that L. Friend marketed came only with Walschaerts valve gear.

The 1970 Yankee Shop catalogue lists Baker valve gear as the standard but a Walschaerts valve gear drawing is also there . Does anyone know anything more about this? I am always interested in the history attatched to a particular model.

An article on a live steamers meet in 1938 at the new Danvers, Mass. track states:

31/2" Gauge.

4-6-4 (NYC) - L.D. Langworthy, Westerly, R. I., chassis and boiler.

I have included another photo of the Carl Hoffman "hybrid" chassis.

By the way, the model is not historically correct if you were wondering. The J1b Hudsons had spoked drivers not box-pok drivers.
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hudson_complete_chassisr-resized.jpg
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JohnHudak
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Post by JohnHudak » Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:53 am

Hi Don, Being somewhat interested in the history of the Yankee Shop, I believe you are correct about the valve gear. One easy way to find out is to look at the dates on the prints, Langworthys prints are dated earlier than L.D. Friends prints, so if Yankee added the baker gear, the date should show it.... Also if I remember correctly, there were several 3/4" Hudsons produced without any of the "notches" in the front of the smokebox for the airpumps to clear. What is unclear is if L.D. Friend made that modification when he purchased the patterns from Mr Langworthy. I have seen a few "Yankee" Hudsons both with and without the cutouts, and both Yankee and Langworthy had that front smokebox cover cast as one piece..... Yankee could have just used up leftover inventory until his own castings were ready......keep up the good work, and I hope to meet you and Richard this summer.....John

Bill Shields

HUDSON

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Feb 07, 2006 12:21 pm

The site you link to is no-doubt, a Langworthy engine. Much more detailed than mine, but from the same drawings / castings (what few I used).

My engines are 'minimalistic', built by an industrial maintenance engineer (me) that really doesn't have time for / care about frills that are not necessary to make the engine run.... :roll:

I have prints that say Langworthy on them, Baker gear..and a completed loco that is built...

The castings / drawings came from Barney Barnfarther in 1956 or so to Jim Stuart. I purchased them in 1975...if you want to talk to Jim directly (he has known Charlie P for 60 years), 302-378-6100..just introduce yourself and ask away...

My guess would be that my castings appear to have completely bypassed Yankee Shops entirely. As for 'not finished'...well my drawings are complete. I did not get a tender waterbottom, so I made one from a sheet of 1/4 brass plate. Otherwise, all the castings (in whatever condition), were there.

You have parts that appear similar, and many that I don't recognize...keeping in mind that mine was built for propane..but the grate that I have is a cast 'rocker', not a stackup as you show.

Excuse the bad pictures...loco had been running HARD all day when my kid sister took them....she was in a hurry and I didn't have time to clean things up. All the 'rust' around the smokebox / front end is actually a combination of lube oil, cylinder oil and sawdust from my basement shop (don't ask... :shock:)

The Baker frames I made from scratch since the cast ones were pretty bad...actually, I had to make new cylinders also, since the ones I had were unusable.

Jonathan Lieby at Wood's Hole, MA also has one of these critters...I don't know if it runs any longer, but Jim has seen it run in the past and knows that Jonathan has (had?) it last time he visited (last year).

How can I help? I have the drawings all rolled up, haven't looked at them in 25 years, but know that they are on the shelf...
Attachments
hudson baker.jpg
hudson baker.jpg (26.78 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
hudsons.jpg
hudsons.jpg (54.9 KiB) Viewed 1958 times
hudson front.jpg
hudson front.jpg (36.62 KiB) Viewed 1956 times
Last edited by Bill Shields on Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bill Shields

one more

Post by Bill Shields » Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:22 pm

One more picture....let's see if I can get the size somewhere near reasonable...
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hudson crosshead.jpg
hudson crosshead.jpg (28.11 KiB) Viewed 1959 times

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Carrdo
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Post by Carrdo » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:33 pm

Bill,

The pictures of your Hudson look great. Thank you for making them available.

Having an engineering background myself, I can say that the genius of American locomotive design is, properly constructed and maintained, American engines work best when they are worked hard.

What impressed me with the Hudson, as I first encounted one, was at a model locomotive efficiency trial held here some years ago.

The entrant decided that his locomotive could easily pull over 1200 lbs not including the driver and riding car and, once it got going it did pull the load with no effort at all including going up a long 1% curved grade. I think that he came in second overall.

These efficiency trials test driving and firing skills as much as the engines' mechanical design and knowing the person involved, the practical skills and knowledge which he displayed were evident - more than I ever will have.

The particular cast rocker shaker grate which you have is probably Yankee Shop. Martin S. Lewis of Little Engines had a rocking grate in his "generic" 3/4" scale Hudson and Northern engines but it was a different design.

One can see that I like the Hudson design.

I will summarize what I have been able to discover over the years and then let others post their interests.

In 3/4" scale I know about:

The Carl Hoffman Hudson (a Canadian design out of Kitchener, Ontario). Marketed by Carl and Bruce Hoffman. I understand that the design, patterns and castings were recently sold and now reside in the Northeastern US?

The Laverne Langworthy Hudson originally constructed in the late 30's and subsequently acquired/marketed by Lester D. Friend as Yankee Shop or Yankee Shop Machinists and later by J. P. Friend as Friends Steam Models.

The Alex Josslin Hudson (Toronto, Canada) also known as Pedigreed Locomotive Designs. I have never seen what would be called a true Josslin Hudson locomotive completed although Little Engines of California is now building one!

The Martin S. Lewis - Little Engines Hudson originally out of Lomita, California.

There may be others of which I am unaware.

All of the above designs differ in their own way. The Langworthy and Josslin Hudsons were the most detailed and faithful to the full size prototype. The Hoffman and Josslin Hudsons were based on the early J1b NYC locomotives and have Walschaerts valve gear. I believe the Langworthy Hudson was based on the later J1e NYC Hudson and when marketed by Yankee Shop had both Walschaerts and Baker valve gear with the Baker valve gear being the more common.

The Martin S. Lewis/Little Engines Hudson was more of a "generic " design as both a Hudson and Northern could be built from this design. NMRA research has indicated that 15 part construction articles appeared in The Model Craftsman Magazine in 1934-1935. It had Walschaerts valve gear and could be made either with piston or slide valves.

Alex Josslin was a member of the Toronto Society of Model Engineers (TSME) in the 40's and early 50's. I never met him as this was before my time. I joined TSME in the early 60's.

Josslin was a mechanical draftsman by trade and the drawings he produced reflect that. I don't know in what field he worked but I do know that he did model locomotive drafting work for a number of persons including LBSC. "Curley" Lawrence refers to Alex in some of his writings in the Model Engineer in the 40's and 50's. There are a number of descriptive articles, also in the Model Engineer, on Alex's locomotive designs which various subscribers constructed.

The Josslin Hudson drawings consist of 13 prints (marked A1 through A13) in total, all beautifully drawn. Some details are missing and I don't know if a complete set was ever drafted or not. Alex produced a lot of different drawings for different clients. There is no date on these drawings. The model has piston valves.

The Carl Hoffman prints are interesting. Some of them are marked W. P Levon. One Levon drawing is dated 12-3-54. Some drawings are totally unmarked and some, such as the engine's elevation, section and tender are clearly Josslin with many of the details omitted. In addition, there are many sketches (one of them is marked CAH) which I believe were made for individual customers. I now have about 25 of these prints in total. I could find no other date.

The Carl Hoffman Hudson was based on a model made by Frank Birch, a Canadian living near Detroit. The model has piston valves.

Well, that's enough history. Here is another photo.
Attachments
hudson_lead_truck_assembly_160-resized.jpg
hudson_lead_truck_assembly_160-resized.jpg (23.45 KiB) Viewed 1865 times

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Andypullen
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Post by Andypullen » Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:56 am

Thanks for the history, Don.

I have to add Bruce Hamilton's 1/2 scale NYC J-3 that he built completely from scratch. It's a gorgeous model (John Hudak can attest to this). Thousands of hours went into it. Almost everything is built to scale. There are the correct number of rivets in the tender among other things. Yes, I said rivets. He still has a drawer with extras in it. You need a magnifying glass to see them, but they are actual rivets.

If anybody wants to see it and are in the Baltimore area; contact me.

Andy Pullen
Clausing 10x24, Sheldon 12" shaper, ProtoTrak AGE-2 control cnc on a BP clone, Reed Prentice 14" x 30", Sanford MG 610 surface grinder, Kalamazoo 610 bandsaw.

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Sandiapaul
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Post by Sandiapaul » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:23 am

OK, so where does one obtain castings for these babies??

Also for those htat don't know Baker gear on the J1 is correct as NYC converted all of them to Baker, I forget by what year though.

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JohnHudak
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Post by JohnHudak » Wed Feb 08, 2006 8:34 am

Andy, You certainly are right about Bruces' Hudson, didn't he tell us it was on display in the Smithsonian for a year or two?
Don, as long as we're talking about 3/4" Hudsons, there was a group from the Illinois Live Steamers, who back in the late 30's?? built the patterns for a CB&Q S-4 Hudson. This locomotive had a cast frame! If I can recall all the stories I heard about this project, it seems as if there were about 20 full sets produced. I don't know where they all are (I have a set) but just from looking at how detailed the castings are, it would have produced a beautiful model... Maybe someone here who knows more about this ILS project can shed some light?? John

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