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This forum is dedicated to those hobbyists with the 3-in-1 metalworking machines. Mill-Drill-Lathes. Tips, techniques, modification and use of these machines is topical.

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wolframore
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 am
Location: Chicago, IL

New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:29 pm

Hello,

I'm new to machining. I've been looking for a while... considered a 7x machine then the 9 x 20. Found a Knuth DBF400 3 in 1 mill/late for a deal I couldn't resist and haven't looked back.

I'm figuring it out as I go. Bought a lot of cutting tools off craigslist, HHS, carbide and indexable. Have 2 sets of parallels, verniers, micrometer, and some wrong sized clamping made for a bridgeport. Have a live end from e-bay the MT3 jacobs is on it's way. Been admiring some Harold Hall devices and have an indexer on a list of one day when I'm able.

Last week my son and I made a fire piston and got it to work on the second version.

I'm an office guy by trade but love making things and just trying to get this tooled up. Been scrounging scrap yards for turning/milling stock.

Hope this forum gets more traffic in the future. Been reading back and amazed at what you guys do!

:D :D :D
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

Torch
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Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: New to Forum

Post by Torch » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:30 pm

Welcome. The 3-in-1 area tends to see specific questions about the multi-function machines themselves more than questions about machining in general. The General Discussion area sees a lot more traffic, dealing with the art of machining.

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wolframore
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:48 pm

Hi Torch,

Thanks for the quick reply. The unit I bought was slightly damaged during shipment which gave me a huge discount. I've already replaced the cross slide wheel with an old Atlas wheel machined to fit.

I've been reading through the posts to learn about the machine. Was wondering if anyone has a small oil leak at the bushing under the oil level viewer. Is there anyway to stop it. It's not leaking a lot (prob less than a drop a week) but doesn't look nice and it's making the paint peel off near it.

I turned a self centering washer for the draw bar the other night. The spindle was 0.625" and the draw bar is 1/2". So I made a washer that fits abuot 1/8" deeper to center the drawbar. I will have to start taking pictures. Took five minutes but it was satisfying and makes the mill head spin much smoother.

This weekend I'm meeting up with a retired machinist who's selling me a set of r8 collets, he said they cost thousands for the set with each one being a couple hundred. He said that there's 3 trays of them. Does that sound right and do I need them? He wants $300 for the entire set.

I've gotten many nice tools, clamps and cutters from him cheap compared to what I can buy them new. I trust him. Just wondering how important collets are.
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

Torch
Posts: 1561
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: New to Forum

Post by Torch » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:58 pm

One thing the Chinese seem to do well is collets, so the price of decent collets is not what it used to be. You can get a decent set of 25 R8 collets (1/32" increments) for under $200. However "3 trays of them" sounds like more than just a set of R8 collets. It may include a set of ER-40 or ER-16 or similar with an R8 holder. I guess it depends on how big a tray is and how fine the increments are. ER-40 and ER-32 collets have a grip range of about 1mm because they are double-ended (they compress approximately parallel). However R8 collets are single-ended -- they compress only one end so the grip range is considerably less. R8 collets should ideally be just a nice sliding fit to start. I'm not certain what the official grip range is, but I think 1/64" would be pushing the limit. 1/128" is probably more reasonable for R8.

You probably won't use most of them. For drilling, it's just as easy to use a chuck. For milling, you will only need a few sizes to fit your mill shanks. For milling small items, you won't reach the work with a cutter installed in an R8 collet on that machine. There is a lot of space between the bottom of the quill and the table surface even when the column is dropped to it's lowest setting.

That said:
Since the 3-in-1 format doesn't have an adjustable knee, collets and holders are sometimes a good way to adjust your milling height instead of raising or lowering the round column height (forcing you to re-index your work). The R8 collet will hold the cutter up tight to the quill. An endmill holder will drop the cutter a few inches. An ER-40 holder and collet will drop it about 4". You can get that 4" by lowering the quill, but at the cost of rigidity -- you get the best finish and least problems with the quill as high as possible. So a selection of collet systems can be particularly advantageous at times.

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wolframore
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Re: New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:22 pm

Thanks for the advice. I passes on the collets. I'm ordering a set of Chinese R8 collets with the ER style holder. I did get some other odds and ends from the retired machinist buddy: couple diamond tips, a nice set of all carbide boring bars, all carbide cut off tool, big starrett surface gage, he threw in a handful of various taps and a full large sized dies and some other things i haven't figured out yet for a $100. Here's a picture of the machine the day I got it still on the pallet. It's still sitting on the pallet to this day and the craftsman seat makes a good height for working off the dolly. I'm not sure what to mount this on to yet.

Please ignore the mess!
Attachments
Knuth DBF400.jpg
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

Torch
Posts: 1561
Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:58 am
Location: Muskoka

Re: New to Forum

Post by Torch » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Ok, tip #1 -- your seat is on the wrong side of the machine... :lol:

Seriously, you will want to mount it on something as rigid as possible. Believe it or not, that big cast iron bed can and will flex.

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wolframore
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Re: New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Thu Nov 01, 2012 9:22 am

Torch wrote:Ok, tip #1 -- your seat is on the wrong side of the machine... :lol:
LMAO - that's the other seat for loosening up the motor belt!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Just haven't figured out what to mount it on yet... do I weld one together with some heavy tubing or use a heavyduty tool chest on wheels... my wife donated her old makeup desk in the background but wish it was made out of 14ga steel instead... i use it to store my tooling... I'm scouring the forums looking for lathe stand ideas.
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

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ken572
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Location: Mesa, Arizona. 85201-1517

Re: New to Forum

Post by ken572 » Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:47 pm

Good morning wolframore,

Welcome to The Home Machinist!

You might want to check this out.. :wink:

http://www.harborfreight.com/two-cabine ... 46378.html

Ken. :)
One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.

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wolframore
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Location: Chicago, IL

Re: New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:20 am

Thanks for the link.. it didn't work. Harbor Freight keeps dropping machinist stuff. Ugh. I have a post in another forum saying we should e-mail their customer service to stock home machinist tooling again. I would like their universal tool grinder or their carbide tool grinder which they discontinued and now costs much more through ENCO or Grizzly.

I put the machine on a bench the other weekend. That was a fiasco when I took it apart completely, cleaned and overfilled with the wrong oil. Had heavy foamy oil ooozing until I drained and re-filled with compressor oil. My wife donated an old makeup dresser with many drawers (it's behind the lathe in the picture) - perfect for all my tooling. Solid wood and seems to be okay for now. Need to take a picture...
One thing the Chinese seem to do well is collets, so the price of decent collets is not what it used to be. You can get a decent set of 25 R8 collets (1/32" increments) for under $200.
BTW... thanks for the info about collets... I picked up 7pc R8 Collets (1/8ths up to 7/8") from cdco for $28.00 - they have a booth at Seven Mile fair near Milwaukee (so no tax or shipping). I'll save up and get 15pc R8 ER40 (in 16th) for $139.00 later. Meanwhile I can mill now!!!
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

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ken572
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Location: Mesa, Arizona. 85201-1517

Re: New to Forum

Post by ken572 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:44 pm

wolframore wrote:Thanks for the link.. it didn't work.
Item#46378 is the bottom section of this lathe package. :wink:

http://www.harborfreight.com/9-inch-x-2 ... 45861.html

MANUAL
http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manual ... /45861.pdf

You might reference this to product support and see if they can order it under a
different number. :idea:

That is how I got my Steady Rest, Follow Rest, and my lathe stand w/chip pan
for my Item#44142 3in1

Ken. :)
One must remember.
The best learning experiences come
from working with the older Masters.
Ken.

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wolframore
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:06 am
Location: Chicago, IL

Re: New to Forum

Post by wolframore » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:32 pm

Thanks for the info about the steady rest... I was wondering if i have to make my own... Here are some pics of the machine on the stand. My shop is starting to look inviting!
Attachments
DBF1.jpg
shop2.jpg
Cheers!

Charlie

Knuth DBF 400 - 3 in 1 Lathe Mill

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