U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 05/07/2018 (see last page)

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Millhouse
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U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 05/07/2018 (see last page)

Postby Millhouse » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:25 pm

Just passing the info along.

https://www.up.com/aboutup/community/inside_track/steam-update-01-03-2018.htm

In this update Ed Dickens talks about 4014's front engine frame and the work that's been going on with it.
Last edited by Millhouse on Mon May 07, 2018 4:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

bobnsteam
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby bobnsteam » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:58 pm

Thank you Millhouse for 4014's status. Looks like 4014 is on schedule.

Mark D
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Mark D » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:58 am

Ed has a lot on his plate to get this thing done in time for the big shindig the U.P. picked it up for. He knows what he's doing, but he is a perfectionist to a tee and sometimes that gets in the way of progress.
Some things on that engine that are maybe worn, but not ready to fail by any means, should be left alone until after the big party. IOW, get the job done, then go back and take care of the stuff that still needs to be done.
Just my opinion though. Other operators have done exactly what I have said.
However he does it, it will be first class work all the way through.
I have never met Ed Dickens, but I know people who have and what I say about him comes from them. Disregard what you might have read on some other forums. He knows what he's doing.

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Wowak
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Wowak » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:39 am

I get what you're saying about only do the things you have to do, but I would put new steam and brake piping pretty hight on the list of stuff I don't want to fail out on the system. A few weeks ago I was stripping the brake piping off the tender frame of 3713 at Steamtown and some of the piping was so rotted it broke while trying to turn a union loose with a wrench.
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Mark D
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Mark D » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:50 am

I agree with you 100% Wowak. Actually, the steam piping for all the systems and appliances, as they're called, should be replaced. That isn't difficult or very time consuming to do. That, and every single one of the stay-bolts need to be tested and replaced as necessary. One can almost guarantee that more than one of them will be broken.
However, things like the rod brasses - if they're functional but a bit wide in the clearances - will go for a long way and they only have a short way to go. If it were I, I would leave those alone.
His biggest issue is going to be to get the oil conversion working properly, IMO.
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John Bohon
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby John Bohon » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:54 pm

When we were rebuilding Southern 4501 at TVRM we took the time to do the job right. There was considerable talk that we were taking to long and that the engine did not need the addition of a stoker and feedwater heater. We replaced 98 percent of the firebox leaving only a couple of small and nearly new corner patches on the throatsheet. Even in those patches we replaced all the staybolts resulting in 100 percent new staybolts in the firebox. The truth is we did not spend all that much time putting the stoker and heater on the engine. It was all the heavy boiler work, repairing the completely worn out running gear, and getting the whole thing back together that took the time. When you make nearly everything new with nothing coming off the shelf as it would have in the old days it takes time. The payoff has been that 4501 has performed nearly flawlessly since coming out of the shop. There have been no hot bearings which was a constant torment for many years before the overhaul. I remember a problem with the air compressor may have caused it to miss part of one day. On the mainline it ran like a hotrod. Working at home it has been very trouble free. You get what you put into these things and what you pay for. I hope the UP takes the time needed to produce a trouble free machine. The funny thing is since 4501 went into service all the crap about did it or did it not need a stoker or feedwater heater went away just like the crying over what color it should be painted. I think the same will happen if the 4014 runs as it should when UP finally gets it on the road.

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Wowak
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Wowak » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:41 pm

For the record I'm still sore that they didn't paint 4501 green. ;)
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Wowak
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Wowak » Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:44 pm

And Mark, I agree about brasses and the like. I know 113 has taken some flak from the arm-chairs because they got the boiler up to snuff and started running with very little work done to the running gear. Now thatwork is getting done. No harm no foul.
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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:35 am

Wowak wrote:For the record I'm still sore that they didn't paint 4501 green. ;)


WHAT? That's like painting the White House purple with yellow polka dots.

OH! I'm gonna lay on the floor and moan a bit!

What color did it get painted?


As for the work on 4014, I figure the I expense to tear down the various parts to get at the parts that are in absolute need of repair, so as long as those parts are off, may as well do work on them now and save the expense of taking them off later to do what needs to be done. Depends on the size of the workforce and the cost of teardown and reinstallation.
Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough


Pkgs.

Mark D
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Mark D » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:02 pm

The boiler does take most of the time spent on returning an old steam engine back into service. And it has to be done right with nothing left to chance.
When the Milwaukee Road 261 was first put into service back in the mid '90s that is what they concentrated on. Mostly, the running gear was good enough to run for a couple of years. The wheels weren't turned until a few years ago when the 1472 service day / fifteen year rules required the teardown of the boiler for inspection. This was a good time to turn the wheels because by they it was becoming necessary. It was done this way because it was necessary to get it out earning some money to finish the job. During that time, there were no serious problems. The rods clanked pretty loudly, but as the old saying goes, "I'd rather hear them than smell them".

On other parts, for example; if the air pumps work properly, he should let them go until after the big party. Safety valves do need to be tested and R&R'd as needed. Again, it doesn't have to go very far and if he doesn't get the thing running in time he's likely going to have to find a new job. The FRA mandated things must be taken care of. If there's time left fix what you can until it's time to go to the big party.

Just sayin'

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Charles T. McCullough
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Charles T. McCullough » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:45 pm

I should clarify my comment about the color of the 4501... like Henry Ford, I think you should be able to paint any locomotive "any color as long as it is black." But the first time I saw the 4501 and all the photos I have of it, it was Green with gold accents, so I only think of it in those colors. As long as they didn't paint it RED or PURPLE or BLUE and the undercarriage is not RED, I can heartily accept it in BLACK!
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John Bohon
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby John Bohon » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:07 pm

In case you are not kidding about knowing the color of 4501 these days it is in Southern freight black. Some of the guys working on the engine pushed for a passenger black livery like was on ex C&O 2716 when it was in the Southern Steam Program but that was ruled out. That would have been a good look too. If I remember correctly NS wanted the engine black for their excursions. In my opinion 4501 looks better in black. It certainly looks bigger. Of course I also have always thought the older consolidations 630 and 722 looked better than the 2-8-2 anyway. Their boilers are about the same size as 4501 and they sit on smaller drivers giving them a huskier look. To say I am in a minority with that opinion is quite the understatement.

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Mark D
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Mark D » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:54 am

John, what is the difference between passenger black and freight black? I've always thought that black is black. There's even an old pop tune that goes; Black is black, I want my baby back....
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby John Bohon » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:39 am

The Southern black passenger scheme is black paint but with decorative gold striping on the tender and cab walls and probably some other decoration I do not remember. The freight scheme is a rather plain black without striping. The number of the locomotive is on the tender in big letters and the name of the railroad on the cab in small letters along with a smaller number and a little data like the cylinder deminsions and the railroad class designation for the engine. For a comparison look for photos of Southern 630 which is in the freight scheme and Southern 2716, ex C&O 2-8-4 leased for a short while by the old Southern Steam Program, in the black passenger paint The Southern was an odd railroad in that it did not have exact paint plans for their engine. Each shop was allowed to decorate there engines to a degree that Southern fans can identify which shop engines were assigned to by the paint and ornaments and there placement on the engines. Not being that great of a Southern fan I have never bothered to figure out the differences but they can be quite noticeable in photos.

John Bohon

Mark D
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Re: U.P. Steam Shop 4014 Update 01-03-2018

Postby Mark D » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:24 am

That's interesting! It would have made Southern engines a sort of curiosity for people along the route, to see the engines and figure out where they came from, or are going to at some point.
I'm used to steam locomotives being just plain black with white markings, period, except for passenger service engines where a good number of them had really nice paint schemes and shrouding to make them look sleek.
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