MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Welding Techniques, Theory, Machines and Questions.

Moderators: Harold_V, Scott

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by steamin10 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:25 pm

By the by, is GTAW, SMAW, and all that the proper names of Stick, mig, tig and fuel gas welding??? I learned how to melt steel together before I could ride a bicycle. I was doing soft and silver solder with my trains at 9 yrs old. I built a wooden 8 foot John boat at age 14. I learned before I know the names of most things, when gas was 25c a gallon and I fixed lawn mowers. Not to brag, I just did not have anything that I did not earn.

I built my bicycle out of used parts too. Mom bought me two cans of spray paint. One black, and one a purple frost. Snazzy!.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

Harold_V
Posts: 17692
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by Harold_V » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:42 am

I'm no expert, but, yeah, those are the designations one sees when the various processes are discussed. If you can keep them straight (I can't), they help avoid confusion.

I wonder how many kids of today can say they've done the things you routinely did? Seems there's precious few who know how to work with their hands, aside from a keyboard. Really refreshing to see them when you do.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7761
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:28 am

Harold, have you seen Popular Mechanics lately? It's unbelievable. A typical article would be something like, "The Hammer: Incredible Technology for Driving Nails." It's aimed straight at feminized hipsters.

I subscribed for a while, and I had to quit. The "tool" articles were awful, and it seemed like every issue had a big article on young tech executives. "Vegan Marcie Kwan started out as an intern at CNET, and now her dog-grooming app company has gone public!" Who cares about that crap? Tell me something useful, like how to cut tile.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

User avatar
BadDog
Posts: 4794
Joined: Wed May 17, 2006 8:21 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by BadDog » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:46 am

Yeah, in conversation I use the common terms. And when I type them, I have to say it in my head to keep them straight.

But I tend to try to write as exactly as possible. When I try to be relaxed, brief, or to inject some levity, things get misunderstood and all too often I feel I must later respond again to clarify anyway. For me, that seems most important on public forums. And the professional writing I do requires being very specific and accurate, so that probably doesn't help.

My kids (boy and girl) both grew up helping do real world physical things for themselves, and a lot of time in my shop. We built and ran rock crawlers and off road trucks, fancy/heavy steel gates for the house, they fixed/maintained/upgraded their own bicycles, my son wanted a motorcycle so he bought a tired old 400 Nighthawk that we disassembled, inspected, rebuilt, adjusted, etc and produced a practically new Nighthawk that he was intimately familiar with. My daughter helped me build her first vehicle, which was a K5 crawler on 35s. She was ~5'9", slim, blond, blue eyed, and she really got some looks driving that driving it to college, particularly with AZ pinstripes and rock-rash providing character down the sides (on every panel). Their friends still constantly comment to me how they seem to be able to deal with (usually fix, or assemble) "anything", and my daughter does more maintenance on their house and vehicles than my SIL. I see many places I could have done better raising them, but when I look at their friends and coworkers, I'm feeling pretty satisfied.
Russ
Master Floor Sweeper

Harold_V
Posts: 17692
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by Harold_V » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:26 pm

SteveHGraham wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 9:28 am
Harold, have you seen Popular Mechanics lately? It's unbelievable. A typical article would be something like, "The Hammer: Incredible Technology for Driving Nails." It's aimed straight at feminized hipsters.
Nope! Haven't picked up that magazine in years. For that matter, I stopped subscribing to the steam magazines long ago, too, much as I love steam.

Reason?

(This may sound like I'm blowing my own horn, but that's not my purpose).

I grew weary from reading "how to" articles that made suggestions of methods that were archaic, often poor guidance (center punch the hole before drilling, as an example), offering risk of harm, risk of less than acceptable results, and many other offensive (to me) suggestions. I'm basing this on the fact that I ran machine tools for a living for 26 years, 16 of those years running my own commercial shop, and was able to perform well beyond the recommendations of those who authored the articles. They were well meaning, but not well informed.

The straw that broke the camel's back, for me, was the "how to" article that was published in Modeltec, in which one was admonished to weld a small boiler with 6013 rod. Yikes!

It's noble of folks to try to help others, but providing information that can be dangerous, even lethal, isn't my idea of being helpful. I feel the same way about guidance that offers risk of scrapping work.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7761
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by SteveHGraham » Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:11 pm

Wow; 6013 rod. What idiots. ???

What's wrong with center-punching before drilling?
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

Russ Hanscom
Posts: 1572
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:10 pm
Location: Farmington, NM

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by Russ Hanscom » Wed Sep 26, 2018 8:42 pm

As Harold and I met many years ago over the boiler article... it is possible, but not recommended to use 6013 for a boiler or other purposes. As long as you write and qualify a procedure for a particular joint and rod, it is possible, just not the best way. 6013 has a tendency to porosity so you could end up with a lot of grinding out and rewelding. When there is a better way, why do it the hard way other than to prove a point.

Some say that 6013 is a sheet metal rod - however the Lincoln book lists 6013 rod in sizes up to 3/16", or larger, so some sheet metal!

Harold_V
Posts: 17692
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by Harold_V » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:45 am

The big problem with 6013 is it isn't aggressive. While it may achieve good penetration, it is also capable of not doing so, especially when compared to 6010 or 6011. It is also 10,000 psi weaker than the recommended rod, which would be 7018. All in all, putting a pressure vessel in the hands of a novice, one who likely has low welding skills (as I do), and recommending a rod that isn't generally acceptable for a boiler isn't the best thing you can do.
On the plus side---it's easy to get a "pretty" weld with 6013, just as it's easy to get a pretty weld with 7014.
If I am mistaken in my comments, I welcome correction. I'm not weldor, and it has been many years since my welding classes.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

Harold_V
Posts: 17692
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by Harold_V » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:50 am

SteveHGraham wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:11 pm
What's wrong with center-punching before drilling?
Nothing, if you don't mind drilling holes where they're not wanted.
Unless I'm drilling by hand, I NEVER center punch. I want the hole where I want the hole--I am not willing to compromise on that.
If you use good practice in drilling holes, you can drill a series of holes in a plate, all of them nominal size, then drill the same series of holes in another plate, all of them tapped. The plates will be easily assembled using bolts. Almost impossible to do that if you center punch.

But then, I'm anal. I was expected to work that way, so that's the way I learned to work. Some don't agree.

You can drill holes with a drill press and hold tight tolerances--all day long holding ±.005". Just don't use a centerpunch. It serves no good purpose, and introduces error that isn't necessary.

H
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

User avatar
steamin10
Posts: 6712
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2003 11:52 pm
Location: NW Indiana. Close to Lake Michigan S. tip

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by steamin10 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:17 am

I am not a welder either. We used to tack the strip for pull through on the pickle line with 6013. Lap over and run a few inch beads and pull it through. We used 7014 all the time for general repair and pipe hand railings. Some called it a farmers rod. OK by me, it worked well and laid out nice.

Multi pass work was always 6011 root and 7018 cover pass. 7018 was annoying in that it did not like anything but clean metal and would give you fits with old rod. We did a lot of repair work on things modified by fork trucks and cranes. Not being cert I never did any structural or safty related welding. Just a junk yard dog.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

User avatar
liveaboard
Posts: 822
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:40 pm
Location: southern Portugal
Contact:

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by liveaboard » Thu Sep 27, 2018 5:23 am

I welded a steel cabin on an old Dutch barge; more than 1000 meters of bead I figured out later.
It took a while; I was working alone out on the edge of the harbor.
Sometimes I was lying on a plank an inch above the water...
All 6013, 3.2mm, 1/8"
I still know almost nothing about welding, which rods for what, etc. But skill level is ok after that job.

User avatar
SteveHGraham
Posts: 7761
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 7:55 pm
Location: Florida

Re: MIG for Cast Iron + Small Welding Table

Post by SteveHGraham » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:55 am

Harold_V wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:50 am
SteveHGraham wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:11 pm
What's wrong with center-punching before drilling?
Nothing, if you don't mind drilling holes where they're not wanted.
Unless I'm drilling by hand, I NEVER center punch.
I see what you're saying. I generally center-punch when drilling by hand, but it would be pointless when using a rigid machine tool.
Every hard-fried egg began life sunny-side up.

Post Reply