welding "leaded" sheet i.e. SAE 1111 or similar

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markedman90
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Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:11 pm
Location: Barrington, Il.

welding "leaded" sheet i.e. SAE 1111 or similar

Post by markedman90 »

I'm trying to weld repair panels to my F150, and having marginal results :( with my MIG (Century - 120V, High/Low amp - gas kit - 75 CO2/25 Argon), or my Oxy Acetylene rig. Mild steel wire or rod.
If I get good deposition, I get insufficient penetration on the panels, and if I kick the voltage to High, I get burn thru the original Ford panel.
These are lap welds - I used a panel flanger.
Original Ford panel 22 ga., replacement 18 ga.
Any ideas about what I'm doing wrong? :oops:
My 1st time here, but not my 1st trip to the rodeo.
"A Good Toolmaker Can Do Anything" (and if you are one, don't EVER tell your wife)
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Harold_V
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Re: welding "leaded" sheet i.e. SAE 1111 or similar

Post by Harold_V »

What I know about MIG welding wouldn't fill a small thimble, but I'd like to welcome you to the board.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
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steamin10
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Re: welding "leaded" sheet i.e. SAE 1111 or similar

Post by steamin10 »

You did not mention what year, but the issue is the same: the body panels are thin of course, and the problem is getting the paint and coatings, (zincrometal) that is on the panel off, so a good bond can be made. Lapping the panel with a seamer is good, but the mating undersides have to be clean.
I would get around the problem by drilling 1/4 inch holes in the overlaying panel to pocket weld into the panel below and leave but a dimple on the surface. Finess is key here, as you have found , adheasion and burnthrough are both problems of timeing. Before the wire days, such patches were brazed in. Heat wrinkles and toasted metal was assured. When it works, wire is the best, but also an aquired skill. Make some coupons and do some bench welding, to practice, and see if you can find your sweet spot honing your skills.

There is another gizmo that was used on a standard welder. Shaped like a gun, pulling the trigger slowly, advanced a welding rod towards the surface, until an arc was started. That position was held, and the rod burned through the top sheet, and puddled the bottom sheet before burnback broke the arc. A spot weld. I am not suggesting you buy one of these turkeys, as they worked so-so, just trying to get you an Idea of how to work your problem.

Just about anything can be gas welded, it is the correct application of critical temperature. Getting the 18 hot enough will surely slag the 22, so heat control is critical. Add to that, the modern metals used in Auto manufacture are higher carbon for lighter weight and high strength, given the low crown panels have little structure to support them, and it is a recipe for frustration for any body guy.

Luck to ya.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.
markedman90
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 2:11 pm
Location: Barrington, Il.

Re: welding "leaded" sheet i.e. SAE 1111 or similar

Post by markedman90 »

steamin10 wrote:You did not mention what year, but the issue is the same: the body panels are thin of course, and the problem is getting the paint and coatings, (zincrometal) that is on the panel off, so a good bond can be made. Lapping the panel with a seamer is good, but the mating undersides have to be clean.
I would get around the problem by drilling 1/4 inch holes in the overlaying panel to pocket weld into the panel below and leave but a dimple on the surface. Finess is key here, as you have found , adheasion and burnthrough are both problems of timeing. Before the wire days, such patches were brazed in. Heat wrinkles and toasted metal was assured. When it works, wire is the best, but also an aquired skill. Make some coupons and do some bench welding, to practice, and see if you can find your sweet spot honing your skills.

There is another gizmo that was used on a standard welder. Shaped like a gun, pulling the trigger slowly, advanced a welding rod towards the surface, until an arc was started. That position was held, and the rod burned through the top sheet, and puddled the bottom sheet before burnback broke the arc. A spot weld. I am not suggesting you buy one of these turkeys, as they worked so-so, just trying to get you an Idea of how to work your problem.

Just about anything can be gas welded, it is the correct application of critical temperature. Getting the 18 hot enough will surely slag the 22, so heat control is critical. Add to that, the modern metals used in Auto manufacture are higher carbon for lighter weight and high strength, given the low crown panels have little structure to support them, and it is a recipe for frustration for any body guy.

Luck to ya.
Thanks to both you and Harold.
The truck in question is a '94, and the patch panels were fabbed in Taiwan (of course :( ).
Dave, I think you were referring to a "stitch welder". I had 1 when I still had my stick welder, and had pretty good luck with it in cases like this.
I may look into adding some kind of rheostat to get around the high/low limitation of my 15+ yr. old low end Century unit.
"A Good Toolmaker Can Do Anything" (and if you are one, don't EVER tell your wife)
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