Help with wheeling. Please.

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ukmxer
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Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2003 5:48 pm

Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by ukmxer » Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:50 am

I would like to wheel a shape that resembles a cobra's head from the back. I can manage the flare for the head but can not create the neck to head transition.
I keep getting a bump on the outer edge where the transition would start, Could someone describe how to wheel the transition from large open section to a small half circular section.

I want the neck(half circle) to be at the end at the bottom of the picture.

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Gourdhedd
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Re: Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by Gourdhedd » Fri Apr 23, 2004 9:54 pm

You might want to try asking this question over at MetalMeet.com. Lots of serious talent there on sheetmetal shaping.
Gary

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Jacin
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Location: Near Cleveland, Ohio

Re: Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by Jacin » Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:30 pm

ukmxer, I'd try and help, but my compurter is going ka-put and your picture looks like an etch a sketch - so I really cannot even toss out a suggestion. this CRAPPY COMPUTER!!!!!

The suggestion to visit www.metalmeet.com is a good one. In addition I would also suggest checking out www.metalshapers.com and also "metalshapers" on Yahoo groups.

Kent White'sweb site is SURE worth a visit too.

Oops I almost forgot - BOTH the sites above have excellent PHOTO albums - I'd also suggest you peruse them as well.


Ok - I probably shouldn't do this since I literally cannot see your problem - but this may help anyways.

When shaping metal you are trying to first get the correct amount of AREA. Guys will make FLEXIBLE SHAPED PATTERNS to copy this surface information. Aphysical shape of the correct size is imperative to this approach. CAr guys will sometimes make these from an existing fender - or wooden "buck". bucks can also be made from crazy foam - or plain old styrofoam. The part i scarefully taped up (make a mask effectively) and then the tape is peeled off as a whole. Once off - you can toss some flour or talcum powder to KILL the adhesive. Sign makers tape is preferred as it is "designed" to be easily removed/peeled. it is them reinforced with fibeglass packaging tape.


A simpler flex pattern can be made up of plain old paper and cu t where stretching needs to happen and folded where shrinking needs to occur.

So bottom line ONCE you get the CORRECT amount of SHAPE (area) you'll find out that you can then very easily arrange or FORM your part correctly. Bottom line this will now allow you to work your part (wheel it) gently OUT of FORM. Think of it this way. If your metal was as flexible as say a ballon it would be very difficult to get it to hold it's FORM - but the SHAPE (area) would be correct whether it was inflated or not. Since you metal is stiffer than a ballon - it too will not necessarily be in the correct (form) BUT once it has the correct SHAPE (area) it WILL BE FAR EASIER to achieve the proper FORM (orientation). So bottom line the anvils you use to smooth out with will be of far less consequence IF you wheel out of FORM. Go back to our BALLON example - lets' say out ballon was now made of PAPER that while we did stretch and shrink into the proper area we found ourselves with a wrinkled OVAL. We could manipulate the oval to first work out teh wrinkles in a FLAT of the OVAL. Next we can simply RE-FORM it (with our hands even) to "move" this flat to the NEXT section - then smooth out THOSE wrinkles - we repeat until all wrikles are smoothed out. but in the end finds out that we STILL MIGHT BE wheeling OUT of FORM - or an OVAVLED part - toss our flexible pattern on it to ensure the AREA is STILL CORRECT and then fixing it might be as simple as tweaking it with your hands - you mgith find it surprisingly easy to manipulate.


ok this etch a sketch screen is giving me a headache!!!!!


I hope I helped!!!!!



Good LUCK and keep us posted!!!


Jacin in Ohio

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MikeC
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Re: Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by MikeC » Mon Apr 26, 2004 11:31 am

That is a pretty complex shape to attempt purely with a wheel. You may not be able to get that bump out with a wheel. You are going to have to shrink that spot, and shrinking is not the wheel's job. Try a dolly and hammer. That should shrink the bump out, and then you can proceed on your way.
18x72 L&S, Fosdick 3ft radial, Van Norman 2G bridgemill, Van Norman #12, K. O. Lee T&C grinder, Steptoe-Western 12X universal HS shaper, 16spd benchtop DP, Grob band filer, South Bend 10L

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oldgoaly
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Re: Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by oldgoaly » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:23 pm

UKmxer,
i think what you are getting is a pucker/ruffle/bottle capper/tuck forming as you
stretch with the wheel. (lots of names but mean the same thing) The pucker/tuck
is a section of metal that needs to be shrunk(made thicker) Here comes the fun part! If i haven't lost you by now there is hope! the ruffle/tuck can be hammered down(not too hard!!!) the metal will gather thickness(don't want a fold to form)
this is call cold or stack shrinking. May i recomend a photo album by John Glover
on tucking on the www.metalshapers.org
i hope this will help as it is very hard to describe in words.
Using a wooden or plastic mallet will help you shrink/tuck your bump.
Reconizing a ruffle/tuck the metal will form a " V " shape with the wide or open
part of the V on the outside edge of the metal.

Good luck with your project!
tt
clueless near st.louis

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MikeC
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Re: Help with wheeling. Please.

Post by MikeC » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:50 pm

A cheapo auto-body planishing hammer and dolly set from harbor fright or one of the other low dollar import companies is about the easiest and fastest way to shrink such a ruffle. You use the dolly on the open side of the V to back it up and hammer the V down, working from the high side and starting at the point. The trick is to not let the hammer actually hit the dolly as you work it. The hammer should give a dead "clack" as you work the ruffle down. If it makes a ringing sound, you are getting into the dolly. The metal is being pinched between the dolly and hammer, and you are stretching the metal, just as the wheel does. You definitely don't want this so you either need to stop, move to another section, or go to a less radiused dolly.

A set of several ruffles is worked by flattening them from opposite sides. It may take more than one time at this shrinking before you get what you want. Just watch for work hardening and cracks as you go. Anneal before it cracks on you or you get to do some welding.
18x72 L&S, Fosdick 3ft radial, Van Norman 2G bridgemill, Van Norman #12, K. O. Lee T&C grinder, Steptoe-Western 12X universal HS shaper, 16spd benchtop DP, Grob band filer, South Bend 10L

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