Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Home enthusiasts discuss their Foundry & Casting work.

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Lazz
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Location: The Warm Arizona Deserts... Phoenix to be precise...

Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by Lazz » Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:15 pm

10KPete wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:00 pm
Lazz, you might like the moulding bench Mr.Pete made:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_7eRBzTGLo

Pete
Funny you should mention that....
I have been watching for a Mcenglevan bench like he shows off in the video.
A wooden bench would be cheap and easy to build....
BUT....
Im thinking about a time when my son in law will have to dispose of the junk I have....
If I build a wooden bench it could easily last 10 or more years.... most likely longer than I do.... When the time comes to make it go away it will be a 10 or 20 year old wooden box that has been holding sand and have little appeal for anyone to want it..
If I make a nice metal casting bench.... when the time comes for someone to want it to go away it could still be a casting bench.... or scrape metal at the least....

So it should go away easily....
Thats my story and Im sticking to it... :)

Im dreaming of a 30" x 48" flat hunk of metal with nothing on it.......... yet:)

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steamin10
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by steamin10 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 12:12 am

2 things to keep in mind for your bench. Wood absorbs water, or oil. that is a no-no for keeping sand in condition , especially part time. Copy an existing design in shape and function, unless you REALLY need to be diferent. My bench was jsut about the size of a chest freezer. I saw one made from caniblizeed fridge parts, all metal. It is where the idea of my blaster cabinet came from, a dead fridge. Also wood can burn, steel will not. The cabinet must be able to seal up fairly tight, or you get cats making deposits, or mice making tunnels, and dust making things, well dusty or dry. Cover the sand with plastic sheet, and close the doors and forget it. A good top will make a fair work surface for double duty when not casting, like most of the time. Shape the front slightly like a bin, and keep the sand in the box, shovel it when needed, out on the floor, and stomp, walk, flip it to combine the oils and fines. The heavy plastic sheet or tarp makes this easy to contain the sand, and then cover it later. A mull is nice, but expensive to buy. A common storage bin can hold all the brushes and slicks, tools and tubes, for molding, and slip into the cabinet to be ready when you are. The flasks can be wood or metal, but sized to the parts you make. You dont need a 2x3 foot 10 inch deep flask for 60 lbs of sand for a coupler knuckle, or boxcar end frame. Keep it simple, and flexible use. Space is precious little in my world, and expensive.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

RONALD
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by RONALD » Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:57 am

Can't do wrong with metal benches.

In the two photos below are:

1. Two of the three metal benches I rescued when the school foundry closed. I could have had them all; the rest were scrapped.
Notice all the castings on the upper ledge, they are all student castings, even a "Hall Pass" hangs in the center.

2. In this photo the benches are in use in 1977.
Attachments
DSCN3063.jpg
DSCN3129_2.jpg

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BAdams
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by BAdams » Wed Jul 04, 2018 9:02 am

Hmmm...
I picked up a small "Job Box" similar to this one some time ago... I think I might just repurpose that bad boy.
orange-frontier-portable-tool-boxes-jsb421720-64_1000.jpg
Brook

chucketn
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by chucketn » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:08 am

Love this thread. I too, am a backyard caster. Started with a galvanized bucket with a rust hole in the side, burned charcoal and even wood. Melted any kind of aluminum I could get my hands on. Used an old hair dryer to fan the flames.
Now I have a molding bench made from a kitchen cabinet base with a plastic mortar tub for the sand. I have both greensand and some petrobond. I built a VonTorne style muller that now needs work.
But as I progressed in knowledge and skill, I have gained the confidence to cast most anything I can think up. With the development of 3d printing, and free hobby use of Fusion 360, I can design and make patterns in shapes I never dreamed I could cast. I still need to develop/build a better burner and get into casting brass and bronze.
Oh, and Lazz, I started the casting journey when I was a young man of 60...

machinejack
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by machinejack » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:39 am

I too use PetroBond. I built a roller wheel muller to recondition the sand. Without a muller using PetroBond is an expensive endeavor. I just add a few drops of 2 cycle oil into the muller and the sand comes out like new, thou not the bright orange when new. My bench is an old pickup toolbox. I use schedule 80 pipe for the crucibles. When you first build a new one put in to the furnace empty and oxide it well, aluminum will dissolve steel over time. Oxide will protect it I know I filled the bottom of the furnace once. Add a drain hole in the furnace for insurance.
Jack

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steamin10
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by steamin10 » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:14 pm

Onc e again I must state the litany of using a clay or carbide crucible. Aluminum is greatly effected by iron content, and will quickly put you in the woods because of it.

I dont know how Petro is an expensive proposition, as it is re-used many times, and is fairly easy to keep in condition. Expensive to start with, I find the aluminum castings superior to anything else being free molded. The only thing more accurate is wax investment, and then you can talk about cost.

At any rate, I am an admitted amateur, my first vessel was a cast iron dutch oven, and have the pop holes on my garage floor to prove it. Name a mistake, and I have probably made it. The biggest being the iron contamination. I ran for many hours once without a single good part coming out of the sand. Once pigged I used some new scrap and made 4 good runs in a row before the LP tank (100 lb) ran cold and empty. I never went back to a steel vessel. I tried a stainless sauce pan, and it eroded too, but had good luck. Why trust to luck. It is up to you.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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tornitore45
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by tornitore45 » Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:26 am

It is my opinion that a retired guy must have a reason to get out of bed.
Is hot now in TX.
I get up at 4 AM and get in the garage soon after breakfast, bu 2PM I feel exhausted, hot, oily and hungry.
Then I consider that I just put in a 9 hour work day.
Retirement is not the cessation of work, is doing what you like when you like and not worrying about corporate politic anymore.
Mauro Gaetano
in Austin TX

Lazz
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Location: The Warm Arizona Deserts... Phoenix to be precise...

Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by Lazz » Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:24 am

tornitore45 wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 9:26 am
It is my opinion that a retired guy must have a reason to get out of bed.
Is hot now in TX.
I get up at 4 AM and get in the garage soon after breakfast, bu 2PM I feel exhausted, hot, oily and hungry.
Then I consider that I just put in a 9 hour work day.
Retirement is not the cessation of work, is doing what you like when you like and not worrying about corporate politic anymore.
I almost agree... I would have agreed until recently.
Last week I caught one of those summer colds... The kind I would struggle with for way too long when I worked. Then after a couple three weeks I would go to the doctor and a couple weeks more it would be over.... For 5 or 6 weeks I would live with the head aches. the running nose... all the body aches and pains... A cold in the summer time while out side in the Arizona weather was the bottom of the barrel for me.... and I spend years working at waste water plants.... you know where the stuff goes when you flush a toilet. So I can recall fairly detailed picture of nasty environments....

This last week I did nothing. for the first time in my life I enjoyed a cold. Those aches and pains the runny nose, all of it screamed Im alive... And after 6 days of lazy Im ready to resume being a busy retired guy....

So sir some days getting out of bed isnt always necessary for me anymore...

The time spend dreaming up new stuff to try casting means I didnt totally waste those 6 days... :)
Im almost to the point I wanna share some pictures....

Lazz
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Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:06 pm
Location: The Warm Arizona Deserts... Phoenix to be precise...

Here are a few pictures.

Post by Lazz » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:15 am

https://imgur.com/a/r5eGu5r
The first picture shows the used 30"X 48"x24" gang box I found locally. 4 chunks of tubing and casters brought working the height to a comfy 35".

The second picture shows the ledge I used to add a false bottom. The thoughts of bending down to nearly ground level every time I wanted sand was a back ache in the making. So my answer to that problem is a false bottom with about a foot of sand storage under the working area.

Next shows the plywood screwed down, followed by the aluminum sheet I glued on the plywood. Having screws in the aluminum sheet to catch the scoop on while gathering sand will be avoided with the caulking glue down.

The fifth picture shows the 2"X2" aluminum tubing used for supports. The last piece of the puzzle installed without making holes in the box.

Next is the pretty much finished moulding bench with a little unused and some used petrobond waiting for the 105 pounds of more petrobond due for a Monday delivery. FYI there is a coupon for $10 off a purchase of $60 that brought my 105 pounds of petrobond to a $145 delivered cost... petrobondforsale.com

And last are a couple examples of almosts.... The 2 handwheels are almost what I want...they just need a couple more refinements. Maybe a better fillet and a different degassing method...

I would like to thank everyone for their comments... Im not done asking questions... I just have progressed to the point I kinda know what questions to google for a while....

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steamin10
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Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by steamin10 » Sat Jul 21, 2018 12:24 pm

Bravo! Any comments about shoulda, woulda, coulda, would seem like throwing stones. My compliments for the follow through to create YOUR bench and work station. Now the fun really begins as you find more things you can do and projects that tickle your fancy as you explore oyur new skills without the handicap of temporary everything.

i have a mull, a miti-mite. But I have seen fluffers of different makes work just as well. It takes the work out of keeping the sand in condition. There is no 'right' way to answer all the problems, and some things will vex you for a time, but I see the creative spirit that is most needed to solve the problems and challenges as they come to you. Again , Bravo! lets see some work done, I am curious.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

Lazz
Posts: 114
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 11:06 pm
Location: The Warm Arizona Deserts... Phoenix to be precise...

Re: Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)

Post by Lazz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:37 pm

The last week or so are all about parting lines and pattern draft...

If raise the cope just under 3/8" of an inch. Place the handwheel wheel down... then when I flip the box and screed the sand the parting line is on the cope drag joint... That was a great youtube find.

My next dilemma is a mill table end cap. When I finally get draft in all directions it should work. I think...

On the subject of "Things they dont tell ya when you start casting. :)"

I havent noticed any suggestions about how hard to ram the sand. There are statements not to over pack the sand.... and not to damage the pattern while ramming the sand...
Is there something like a hardness tester.... put X amount of weight on the sand and measure the size of the weights dent?
As I sit here wondering Ill bet there is a simple method ..

So that folks is the next question I have...
How do you know you have the sand rammed enough?

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