Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

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Loco112
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Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Loco112 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:41 am

Scrap; Bronze & Brass locating gurus;

I want to melt up my own bronze and I already have a huge amount of 3/8" Copper wire to use for the copper. What I need to find is a large quantity of scrap Tin (real Tin, the element, commonly used to make Copper into Bronze).

I have talked to so many scrap metal guys, and they don't seem to even know wjat tin is. When I asked this one guy if he had any "Tin", he pointed to a powder coated (mild steel) exerciser bike and said; "thats Tin right there". I explained to him what powder coating was and what steel was and after seeing his blank expression, I quickly left.

Its amazing what the guys that pick up the scrap don't know about the stuff they they collect for their living.

Ideally there is a source of scrap Tin by itself or with a lessor percentage of copper, that I could locate, and that could be used in the mix to get the sway the high percentage copper melt into a Copper/tin melt that was gettting close to a true bronze for pourinfg silicone Bronze parts from.

If I could find a source for simple scrap Bronze (Copper and Tin only) that would also be great. If you know aof anyhting I should be looking for that meets that description let me know.

The High Tin scrap seems to not exist, but that is what I need to make a bronze pour from, so TIn or something with copper that has a high tin percentage is what is needed, so I need you, my metal gurus, to come up with the answer for this. TIN is the big problem as I see it.
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Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

tomc
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by tomc » Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:15 am

I would think you would have better luck finding scrap bronze and remelting then trying to create your own. Keep us posted on your progress as we need bronze castings also.

Tom C.
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steamin10
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by steamin10 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:32 am

Yep. This is the problem that all home casters face, a source of identifiable feedstock. Most plumbing parts are Brass, and are easily identified by color of the clean metal. Its the same with valve bronze, being richer and deeper toward the copper color. Neither is an analysis, or guarentee. Not too many years ago a large quantity of bronze water valves, were shipped back to china because lead had been substituted for a large part of the expensive tin used to make the valves.

Tin is difficult to buy in smaller than industrial quantities, and if you find it, it is most likely stolen from an electroplating operation like can coatings. That is what I have run into here in the Midwet. Many of the metals, are stolen for conversion here. Myself I have been criticized for creating a nuisance with attracting theives. Such was the opinion of the local constabulary, when 16 foreign car wheel vanished. So did 200lbs of cored red bearing bronze. 400 lbs of Aluminum doors. I could go on.

Your best bet is to contact a metal supplier, and get pigs of your casting metal, turn in your copper for money to buy it, copper is hard to reduce on a small scale and get the additions right. Everdure is one compound that comes to mind, and it is easy to work with. Suppliers in Chicago have large quantities of many metals in smaller bars for ease of handling. The cost will keep you in track as to what your finished product is worth.

To most scrap yards the word TIN will get you duct work, and very light gauge sheetmetal. 11 and 14 gauge will be sheet and heavier than 1/4 starts getting refered to as plate, although the industry standards are diferent.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Harold_V » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:36 pm

I am unaware of any products of tin, today. Time was when tin was the element of choice in tooth paste tubes, and likely other things so packaged. Plastics have replaced tin due to cost.
While it would be a dreadfully expensive source, lead free solder is something like 95% tin, with the balance being antimony.

I'm in the same boat. I have a large store of scrap (pure) copper, primarily from wire.

Harold
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Fender » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:23 am

I have some "Dutch Boy" brand lead-free solder which contains only copper (5%) and tin (95%) with a trace of selenium, no antimony. I think I paid about $7 for a one-pound roll, but that was several years ago. Here's a link:

http://www.tchristy.com/MSDS/Dutch%20Bo ... Solder.pdf

Since you only need about 10-15% tin to make bronze, the price of the solder is reasonable if you have "free" copper to melt it with.
Dan Watson

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steamin10
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by steamin10 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:54 am

Ugh! Thanks Harold for the reminder. I could not think of a common source of tin. Yes, Tin is expensive too.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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Loco112
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Loco112 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:40 pm

Well you guys helped me make my decision, I'll sell it all to the scrapper (next year when the prices have recovered all the way) and then I'll buy my cast parts from my chosen foundry (asap, while the metal prices are still down a little).
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

Harold_V
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Harold_V » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:30 am

Loco112 wrote:Well you guys helped me make my decision, I'll sell it all to the scrapper (next year when the prices have recovered all the way) and then I'll buy my cast parts from my chosen foundry (asap, while the metal prices are still down a little).
I dunno, Dave. When you consider the comments by Fender, you may be pleasantly surprised to find you can alloy your own much cheaper. I'm certainly hoping so. If you've priced metals, I think you'd get my drift. Regardless of what you pay for tin, you're going to pay for tin, be it in raw form, or in your purchased castings. I guess it all depends on what you like to do, and what you'd prefer to have others do for you. No right or wrong in this issue----

For me, I'd really enjoy trying my hand at making my own castings, regardless of the material in question. While I woudn't want to do foundry work for a living, it has always been a fascinating process for me. I've pursued that interest since I was a boy, hanging out at a couple of foundries near me.

If you change your mind and pursue the idea of alloying, please let us know how it turns out.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.

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Loco112
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Loco112 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:08 am

If you change your mind and pursue the idea of alloying, please let us know how it turns out.
I'd really like to, but I have a lot of other things that I have to complete first.
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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steamin10
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by steamin10 » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:12 pm

Founding is an art, and a skilled craft. As a hobby, you become all the hats involved, patternmaker, furnace operator (metalurgist), Quality Control, and floorman. It is hot, dirty, dangerous chemically and physically. But often there is no other way to gain the part that is to be made, any other way. Maybe it is done, but whittling shaped cylinder blocks for a steam engine would be really expensive, on modern machine tools. Setting up a casting, (tho not always easy, trust me) is really a short cut, for the home guy to make his project. And make a dozen if he so desires. I like peeking into and using the older arts. For me it is as much the journey as the result.

I worked at Blaw Knox, in the day, and saw and helped build m-60 Tanks, rock crushers, and blast furnace feed bells. And many smaller jobs that were anonymous as they flowed through the buildings. Formerly Continental Machine and Foundry, they had some of the largest capacity table mills and boring mills in the US. It is all gone now, an 'Enterprise zone', for Trump wannabes.
Big Dave, former Millwright, Electrician, Environmental conditioning, and back yard Fixxit guy. Now retired, persuing boats, trains, and broken relics.
We have enough youth, how about a fountain of Smart. My computer beat me at chess, but not kickboxing
It is not getting caught in the rain, its learning to dance in it. People saying good morning, should have to prove it.

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Loco112
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Re: Scrap; Bronze & Brass and need scrap Tin.

Post by Loco112 » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:10 pm

steamin10 wrote: I like peeking into and using the older arts. For me it is as much the journey as the result. I worked at Blaw Knox, in the day, and saw and helped build m-60 Tanks, rock crushers, and blast furnace feed bells. And many smaller jobs that were anonymous as they flowed through the buildings. Formerly Continental Machine and Foundry, they had some of the largest capacity table mills and boring mills in the US. It is all gone now, an 'Enterprise zone', for Trump wannabes.
To me its the great possibilities that can be had, its the same thing when I see a CAD program on a PC or a CAM program ready to run a part on a CNC, the things they aid in creating. Founding is unlimited and some castings can't be made any other way, its the ultimate puzzle process.

I wish I could have been there with you, working on those parts! I got to work at an Investment foundry for a couple of days once, it was neat, but all I could think about was how I could make my parts on their line!
Narrow Gauge (Information) Exchange dot Org forum
My Projects:
Davenport 30 ton diesel (SV#101 / D&RGW#50)
C&S 1908 steel & 1905 wood: box, stock, flat, gon
D&RGW wooden freight cars, long & short cabeese
EBT 2-bay hoppers, Conoco #44 tank
DV (K&J) hopper
8"n3 - 3-footers, 8" scale, 24" gauge

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