Anyone succeeded with a cupola?

Home enthusiasts discuss their Foundry & Casting work.

Moderator: Harold_V

User avatar
wsippola
Posts: 414
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:21 am
Location: Trenton, On

Re: Anyone succeeded with a cupola?

Post by wsippola »

BClem,

No need to feel put down - you have experience melting iron, which a lot of people would really like to hear about. I've cast aluminum, but iron is a whole 'nother thing!

Anytime someone writes a post, it will be commented on, some positive and some negative. Some comments will be wrong, and they will in turm be commented on. We will all make some mistake or a comment that is taken out of the context it was meant to be in - typed words can very easily cause an emotional response that was never intended. Take corrections with the intent they are given with - to provide corrrect info. Harold made an error earlier in this same thread and it was corrected. He is not trying to put you down.

I for one would like to see photos of your propane fired system for melting iron, along with a few figures on how much iron you can melt. Crucibles you've used that work or don't work. There are a lot of guys who would love to give this a try.

Wayne
User avatar
Harold_V
Posts: 20232
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:02 pm
Location: Onalaska, WA USA

Re: Anyone succeeded with a cupola?

Post by Harold_V »

BClem wrote:Harold, Thanks for all of the support and explanation of my misunderstandings. I stood with the owner (Mingledorf) of the foundry in Savannah as he explained what his workers were doing - not saying that he would totally give away what he may have felt was a proprietary process. Sorry you have never heard of the process, I hadn't either but I repeated what the gentleman explained to me and a few others that he was talking with.
I have heard of the process. It's the method by which gray iron is converted to ductile iron. That's the reason I suggested you read the book on Ductile Iron Production. It goes in to considerable detail.
That man was lying to us!
Many refuse to disclose what they consider hard earned knowledge. He may simply have said what ever came to his mind so you'd have an answer to a question. He had nothing to gain by being truthful, and may have feared disclosing valuable information. I've known many that share that view.
I also have many texts on foundry work and patternmaking including CW Ammen's books The Metalcaster's Bible which is a signed copy (Bill Ammen) First addition Second Printing © 1980 - and another of his books The Complete Handbook Of Sand Casting - a condensed version of the other.
Then you already know that a cupola can't pour steel. That's been the topic of discussion. If not, review the Ammen books. That's precisely where I gained that bit of knowledge.
I know that I will never know as much as you do about everything but I was sincerely replying to the OP's question - not attempting to steer anyone or you wrong.
I'll ignore the rude comment about me knowing everything, but I'll gladly respond to the balance of your comment. I'm not implying you're trying to steer anyone wrong, just that you may not understand the topic well. It's clear you don't, otherwise you wouldn't insist that steel can be poured from a cupola. It can't, no more than it can be poured from a blast furnace. If that wasn't true, the Bessemer converter wouldn't have been a significant invention. Up to that point in time, wrought iron was the best man could produce. The Bessemer converter changed the world, introducing steel to the masses. Man had been melting iron for ages, but was not able to make steel.
You also are misunderstanding me....I did not say that I'm melting steel to make castings nor was the foundry doing the same. What I said was that the cupola was being charged with pieces of steel MIXED with the charge of a majority of iron and semi-steel castings. Apparently steel in small quantities is not a problem in a large iron charge in a cupola.
Again, what I've said, and will continue to maintain, because it's fact, is that a cupola does not yield steel. Perhaps you don't understand what constitutes steel, so that's a hot spot for you. I am well aware of the fact (that's what it is) that a cupola can be charged with steel, and that a cupola is very capable of melting steel. The issue is that it is no longer steel once melted, which you seem to not understand. If that's not true, there must be some other issue that's bugging you.
I know better than to even attempt to melt steel for casting - apparently you're sure that I am though.....
I'm at a loss to understand how you arrived at that conclusion. Had you told me you were melting steel with your furnace, I would have known you weren't. Iron will melt because of its much lower melting point (varies with carbon content, but significantly lower than steel).

Frankly, I was very impressed that you were achieving success with your iron casting. You don't appear to be able to overlook the issue about steel long enough to understand that I was enjoying what I thought was an adult conversation with someone that shared a common interest, and would welcome the views of others. Apparently I misjudged you in that regard, and for that I'm sorry.
I know what you are about - and since you are so certain that there has been blatant misinformation being passed -
Nope. Didn't say that, nor was it implied. I simply stated what I know to be fact. How you deal with information that doesn't agree with what you wish to believe isn't in my control. All I can do is make mention. You have several options, one of which is to research my comments and show me for the fool you feel I am---or to discuss them as an adult, sharing your views without jumping to the conclusion that I'm trying to make *you* look like a fool. That was never implied, nor was it intended. I simply now understand that you do not enjoy a conversation unless it revolves around your beliefs. You're entitled to that, and I'm ok with it, too.

If you feel I'm wrong, please bring it to my attention, so I can offer you an apology. If I am right in my comments, might not hurt for you to acknowledge that you were, perhaps, misinformed. No harm in that, we all make mistakes. We learn by being corrected by those that are in the know. Man learns nothing by hanging on doggedly to misinformation.
you are successful in getting rid of a person attempting to relate experiences that I have acquired over the past 64 years. Done deal...
Absolutely amazing. Something so insignificant as this gives you cause to get your back up?

That's very sad.

Harold
Wise people talk because they have something to say. Fools talk because they have to say something.
User avatar
RCW
Posts: 430
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 12:54 pm
Location: Valle de Oro, TX [near Amarillo]

Re: Anyone succeeded with a cupola?

Post by RCW »

wsippola wrote:BClem,


I for one would like to see photos of your propane fired system for melting iron, along with a few figures on how much iron you can melt. Crucibles you've used that work or don't work. There are a lot of guys who would love to give this a try.

Wayne
Me too!

Bob
--Bob
timekiller
Posts: 158
Joined: Sat Jan 04, 2003 12:33 pm
Location: Huntsville, AL U.S.A.

Cast iron from propane furnace

Post by timekiller »

I haven't been checking this board much, however see there are needs for broader information.

A good casting group is http://groups.yahoo.com/group/castinghobby/ On that group Leon Risenhoover in Luther, OK tells and informs of his advances. His pictures site: http://community.webshots.com/user/lrisen

The key to machinable cast iron is ferro silicon, even from a cupola. "Just before pouring, add some Ferro Silicon, about a half percent by weight of the Iron, to inoculate the Carbon. This will cause it to precipitate as flakes, instead of staying in solution. If it stays in solution, you will have "white iron" which is very hard and brittle." - Tom Cobett Cleveland, Ohio

Feed stock is more important for a crucible furnace, recommended feed stock is cast iron bath tubs and cast iron radiators (thin cast iron), this cast iron has already been innoculated with the right silicon content, and other considerations, to pour thin castings, so can just remelt it and pour similar stuff.

Carbon isn't as easily absorbed or added, as easily as molten metal flooding around the coke or charcoal in a cupola.

Ray :mrgreen:
Post Reply